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hey guys Ryan sprek here as you all know

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this summer in the skies podcast is

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always free to consume but it isn't free

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to create that's why I've started this

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somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

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on a monthly basis you give what you

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think the show is worth you'll be

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helping the show continue grow and to be

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something truly communal and remember

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there are rewards for each level of

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contribution and the list is only

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growing so please help somewhere in the

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skies now by becoming a patron to

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www.suprememastertv.com/heartline

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[Music]

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welcome to summer in the skies I'm your

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host Ryan Sprague for those who follow

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my social networking habits from day to

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day you know that I have been very vocal

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about my opinions on UFO research

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organizations but particularly that of

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the mutual UFO network for MUFON for

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those who may not be familiar with this

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organization I've let the executive

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director describe it in his own words my

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name is Jan horizont I'm the executive

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director for MUFON we are a scientific

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research organization that basically

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collects sighting reports from the

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public and then goes investigates them

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our mission statement as an organization

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is the scientific study of UFOs for the

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benefit of humanity and we have three

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primary goals we investigate UFO reports

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we promote research into the UFO subject

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and we educate the public on our

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findings this mission by the mature UFO

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network is very sound and concise you

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know on target but how do you

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investigate a phenomenon that refuses to

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ever play within the strictures of

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organized science and investigation well

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yet out being a civilian run

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organization MUFON boasts chapters in

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countless cities states countries and

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even continents in every single one of

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those chapters have their own approaches

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opinions and theories on how to tackle

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this deeply mysterious topic so findings

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are often scarce and conclusions are

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rarely if ever made and those in and

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outside of the organization often find

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this frustrating but when it comes to

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UFOs but we not frustrated well I'd say

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it's when we turn that frustration into

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passion and that's exactly what our

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guest today has done with this newly

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appointed position of director of

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research for

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Chris Cogswell is a PhD in chemical

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engineering host of the mad scientist

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podcast and the newly appointed director

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of research for MUFON

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his research focused on the use of

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nanomaterials for sustainability

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improvements to existing systems he

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hopes to bring Mullens methods and ideas

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into the 21st century and be critical of

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the ideas and theories floating around

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ethology today I look forward to

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discussing these very topics and issues

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of Chris in this interview so without

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further ado let's talk to Chris Cogswell

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[Music]

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Chris thank you so much for joining me

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on somewhere in the skies

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oh no problem I'm a huge fan as you know

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as you know and excited to be on here

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yeah man I the same could be said I've

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been listening to your show for a while

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I love the topics you choose the

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approach you take and we're definitely

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going to get into that in this

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conversation but before we even get to

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move on I have to ask you because we've

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never actually personally discussed this

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with one another where and when did your

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interest in UFOs what is stem from yeah

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so actually my my family background I go

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into this on the show a bit but my

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family background is pretty interesting

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we're kind of so my mom's family is

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originally from Italy from a really

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small town or it was a small town now

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it's a relatively large town but from

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body in Italy and so my grandma is

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originally from Yugoslavia from Zagreb

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which is now in Croatia and so my my

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grandma my Nonna always had these

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stories growing up about people and her

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family being able to you know see the

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future in dreams and kind of we've

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always sort of had I guess this backdrop

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of esoteric you know paranormal ask

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stuff in our family history and so you

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know some like one of my cousins Liz

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actually did a lot of research during

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her master's degree in in witchcraft and

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stuff and kind of like the history of

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witchcraft in which sightings and all

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that kind of stuff so anyways when when

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I was a kid

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then you know that kind of stuff was

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like was always kind of in the mix for

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my family and I just kind of fell in

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love with Chariots of the Gods by Erich

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von däniken I absolutely loved that book

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when I first read it and I just thought

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it was fascinating and it kind of led me

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to reading more about how how ancient

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cultures kind of grew and how they built

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these monolithic structures and sort of

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you know getting more interested in like

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the Anthropology and stuff but over time

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it just kind of continued to be a love

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of UFO stories specifically and so

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probably the first really like serious

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UFO study book that I read was probably

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probably the interrupted journey mmm yes

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I want to say and it's one of my it's

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one of one of the ones that I like I

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don't I didn't remember it really all

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that well but I absolutely loved it when

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I was a kid I remember having the book

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and looking at it and stuff and being

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being into it right and just kind of

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being like so afraid about what what is

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this what happened to these people and

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just kind of it all stemmed from there

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you know just being interested in loving

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the topic and stuff and just kind of

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trying to find all of that all the info

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about these cases that I could it

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eventually it led me to you know I've

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always been of a scientific viewpoint

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and so it kind of led me almost

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naturally towards scientific skepticism

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right and so looking at the stuff by you

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know Michael Shermer and all these you

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know Michio Kaku and all these big names

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in physics talking about kind of the

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fringes of where science and physics is

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headed but then also talking about

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talking about where this stuff is being

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misused potentially so that's always

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been kind of my my take on it I suppose

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right and I mean that led you on the

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path to actually become a scientist

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yourself am i correct yeah so my love of

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science kind of blossomed and took over

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I'd say in high school I I definitely

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wanted to be in a punk band yeah that

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was like I know that yeah I was like I'm

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gonna be I'm gonna be in the biggest ska

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band of all time which like was not a

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high

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necessarily they said for myself but you

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know I was excited about it and then

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like you know like all good ska band

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kids I figured out that people didn't

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want to hear trombones with their punk

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music so I should probably get a another

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day job so I originally did Chemical

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Engineering is an undergraduate student

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at the University of New Hampshire I did

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that and philosophy actually is a second

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degree and then and then I had the

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opportunity to get my PhD in Chemical

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Engineering at Northeastern University

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and so I went and did research on

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nanotechnology and you know always

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though had in the back of my mind this

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this philosophy stuff and this love of

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these questions about you know why do

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people believe certain things why do

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people why do people believe certain you

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know non-scientific

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ideas and then why do some scientific

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pieces of evidence find a hard time

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getting their way into the public mind

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or you know why do people seem resistant

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to some scientific ideas or theories or

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whatever whereas other ones seem to have

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a really quick you know easy time to

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latch on that is a great point and I do

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want to touch on the philosophy aspect

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cursory a little bit later in the show

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so keep that on the backburner for sure

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so I moving forward the real reason that

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I wanted to have you on the show today

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is because of your your new position

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that you're now doing with MUFON the

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mutual UFO network I have to ask we you

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know wanting to be in a ska bed and then

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changing to being a scientist what led

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to this next decision on your career

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path of working with MUFON yeah so I

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have always I think like a lot of I

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think like a lot of people that are

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interested in this subject right like

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MUFON always held like a special almost

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like a mystical place for me right

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because it was like it was this you know

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it had a cool acronym and every case I

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was reading about it was like and then

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MUFON showed up right and I was always

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you know I always viewed it as having

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almost an air of an air of seriousness

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to it that other you know if MUFON was

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there some

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was really going on right and as I got

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older and learned more about MUFON and

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how to get involved in stuff I started

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to realize that you know well this is an

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organization just like any organization

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it's full of you know real human people

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and like any human endeavor it has you

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know politics and problems and whatever

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just you know it's a it's a group of

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people like anything else and so I sort

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of you know I sort of was skeptical for

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a long time and very critical and I

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wasn't sure what what they were doing or

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what they should be doing and then when

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I got my PhD I started doing the podcast

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and my co-host was like well you have a

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PhD now like people will just assume you

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know what you're doing it's right so

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like why don't you try to get involved

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more and you know I just I decided to go

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for it so I always knew that I wanted to

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be involved in talking about science and

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skepticism and investigation in this

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realm of stuff but I didn't really know

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how to go about it and in talking to

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MUFON and just kind of getting involved

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they were really open to my ideas and I

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found a lot of people that were thinking

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a lot of the same stuff that I was and

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so and so you know it just seemed like a

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no-brainer to you know it's as opposed

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to kind of I guess from the outside

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trying to find you know I'm the kind of

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person that thinks if you love something

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you should try to work to make it better

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right and MUFON is always held a special

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place for me like I said in these

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investigations in the history of UFO

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studies and you know I felt like there

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was there's a lot of good that MUFON has

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done and a lot of a lot to be saved

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right so I wanted to kind of try to fix

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things from the inside exactly yeah I

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mean what better way to sort of you know

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know yeah I guess I could use that serve

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take something down is by joining it and

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taking it down from within and I love it

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well it's you know it's kind of funny

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like when I what so this is gonna kind

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of sound silly what would actually

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finally made me wanna join was was

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hearing on last podcast that Henry

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Zebrowski had joined right when Henry's

274
00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:56,670
like when he joined I was like you know

275
00:12:00,380 --> 00:11:58,290
what screw it I'm gonna do it too

276
00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:00,390
I was like I'll join too and I'll see if

277
00:12:03,860 --> 00:12:00,600
I

278
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:03,870
gonna try to really get out here and see

279
00:12:08,059 --> 00:12:05,850
what I can do here and it's been I mean

280
00:12:09,769 --> 00:12:08,069
it's been awesome so far yeah yeah it

281
00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:09,779
seems like I mean just before we started

282
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:12,089
recording you're out talking to members

283
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:14,310
of MUFON to get their opinion on what

284
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:16,980
can change I think that is incredible I

285
00:12:21,199 --> 00:12:18,810
mean you've only had this position for

286
00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:21,209
what a few weeks now and you're already

287
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:24,600
making more progress publicly and that

288
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:25,920
is another thing we're gonna get into

289
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:28,860
later then most MUFON investigators or

290
00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:30,660
you know the higher-ups have done in

291
00:12:35,059 --> 00:12:32,670
many many years and I know that sounds

292
00:12:37,730 --> 00:12:35,069
critical but again we are going to get

293
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:37,740
into that so that's very exciting you

294
00:12:41,749 --> 00:12:39,660
know the fact that you're willing to to

295
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:41,759
share that with with the public at large

296
00:12:46,939 --> 00:12:44,639
already that look we hear you

297
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:46,949
here's here's what we're gonna do you

298
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:48,569
know what I mean so yeah it's an

299
00:12:52,430 --> 00:12:50,130
interesting it's an interesting thing

300
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:52,440
because coming from coming from academic

301
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:55,050
science you know in in science you're

302
00:13:00,019 --> 00:12:57,540
sort of you're like begging people to

303
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:00,029
listen to what you're doing right you're

304
00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:02,550
sending out these abstracts to journals

305
00:13:07,069 --> 00:13:05,220
to publish your paper and you're talking

306
00:13:09,079 --> 00:13:07,079
to friends at conferences and saying you

307
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,089
know well hey can I come give a talk in

308
00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:11,040
front of your group and write like

309
00:13:15,499 --> 00:13:13,500
academic science if you're not telling

310
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,509
the public what you're doing then you

311
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:17,519
might as well not be doing it right and

312
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:19,350
that's kind of the view that I've always

313
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,910
had with any kind of research right I

314
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:22,800
mean if you're not like who cares if

315
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:25,110
you're compiling thousands of pages of

316
00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:27,480
data if you're just gonna share it to

317
00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:30,060
your friends right right like that you

318
00:13:33,259 --> 00:13:31,620
should be able to you should want to be

319
00:13:35,329 --> 00:13:33,269
shouting this from the rooftops look at

320
00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:35,339
what we found right and so and I think

321
00:13:41,689 --> 00:13:37,889
partially that's because MUFON has had a

322
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:41,699
sense of members wanting to be secret

323
00:13:45,309 --> 00:13:43,050
and wanting to be quiet about what

324
00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:45,319
they're doing for fear of reprisal or

325
00:13:51,769 --> 00:13:49,560
for fear of mocking or whatever and also

326
00:13:53,929 --> 00:13:51,779
a sense of kind of like you know MUFON

327
00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:53,939
not wanting I think we just didn't know

328
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:56,220
how to be that organization that talks

329
00:13:59,840 --> 00:13:57,870
about this kind of stuff in that way for

330
00:14:01,340 --> 00:13:59,850
a long time because it is humans it is

331
00:14:04,189 --> 00:14:01,350
people that have had their lives changed

332
00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:04,199
by these experiences right so it's a

333
00:14:07,429 --> 00:14:05,550
little hard to like get it out to the

334
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:07,439
public but yeah one of I mean listen

335
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:10,230
again I think that if the great stuff

336
00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:12,120
that's happening at MUFON we should be

337
00:14:15,749 --> 00:14:13,540
telling it to the public so I'm

338
00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:15,759
fool that that's one thing that I will

339
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:17,740
be able to change is at least putting it

340
00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:20,170
out there so people like you know if if

341
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,430
people want to see what we're doing they

342
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:22,959
should be able to for a lot of my

343
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:24,880
listeners I know I have many MUFON

344
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:27,040
members who who listen to the show

345
00:14:30,569 --> 00:14:28,570
even though they know I've been pretty

346
00:14:33,059 --> 00:14:30,579
critical as of late with some more

347
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:33,069
ancillary reasons I would say within

348
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:33,730
MUFON

349
00:14:40,290 --> 00:14:36,870
but in terms of of that Chris we have

350
00:14:42,329 --> 00:14:40,300
MUFON members who believe that there

351
00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:42,339
needs to be an overhaul a reform of

352
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:44,740
sorts and I have some questions from

353
00:14:49,439 --> 00:14:46,930
listeners specifically about how you

354
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:49,449
plan to do this so I guess sort of

355
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:51,970
really diving into what you plan on

356
00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:54,250
doing with MUFON what do you plan to do

357
00:14:59,340 --> 00:14:56,529
as director of research in terms of

358
00:15:01,019 --> 00:14:59,350
overhauling the organization there's a

359
00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:01,029
number of things that I think we could

360
00:15:06,689 --> 00:15:04,060
do a lot better than we do now and so

361
00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:06,699
one of those is actually coming out and

362
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:10,240
giving definitive where as definitive as

363
00:15:16,259 --> 00:15:12,910
any research study can be giving

364
00:15:19,230 --> 00:15:16,269
definitive answers on either individual

365
00:15:21,059 --> 00:15:19,240
cases or general ideas and that's one

366
00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:21,069
issue that I think you know MUFON has

367
00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:23,560
almost two rules it's taken on two roles

368
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:27,220
it's still the research organization

369
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:30,130
that it has been since its inception but

370
00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:31,839
it's also in some ways these local

371
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:35,260
chapters are a place for people who have

372
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:38,560
had scary experiences or experiences

373
00:15:43,470 --> 00:15:40,810
that they can't explain this is a place

374
00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:43,480
for them to come together and in some

375
00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:45,220
ways support each other right and I kind

376
00:15:50,009 --> 00:15:47,980
of I used the analogy of sort of a an

377
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:50,019
Alcoholics Anonymous meeting right in

378
00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:52,510
the sense of if you went to an a a

379
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:54,519
meeting and someone said that you know

380
00:15:58,079 --> 00:15:56,410
the reason I drink is because I had a

381
00:16:00,689 --> 00:15:58,089
bad childhood upbringing

382
00:16:02,699 --> 00:16:00,699
you wouldn't then want someone to come

383
00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:02,709
in the next week and say well actually I

384
00:16:06,269 --> 00:16:04,750
investigated and they had a great

385
00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:06,279
upbringing like you don't want that to

386
00:16:11,069 --> 00:16:08,769
happen and so in many cases there are

387
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:11,079
people coming in and saying listen I

388
00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:12,370
don't know what happened to me I had a

389
00:16:18,059 --> 00:16:14,380
scary experience it is affected my life

390
00:16:20,819 --> 00:16:18,069
negatively and so for the next week an

391
00:16:23,819 --> 00:16:20,829
investigator come back and say we looked

392
00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:23,829
into it we think that they are lying or

393
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:25,540
we think that they are just mistaken

394
00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:26,220
right

395
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,720
to be lying they can just be mistaken

396
00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:30,240
that might not that's not a good way to

397
00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:32,640
support these people right and so we

398
00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:34,670
need we almost need an overhaul of

399
00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:37,320
putting these things into their own

400
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:40,020
baskets right we can be a supportive

401
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,570
community and we can be a place for

402
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:44,160
people to talk about their experiences

403
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:47,850
but we can also be a group that actually

404
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:49,650
investigates these things and comes to

405
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:52,290
some conclusions so that's the first

406
00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:54,570
general thing that I have to say on that

407
00:17:01,280 --> 00:16:58,170
in terms of actual concrete steps that

408
00:17:05,690 --> 00:17:01,290
we're taking we are first off opening up

409
00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:05,700
the MUFON books to scientists into the

410
00:17:10,570 --> 00:17:08,280
public so if you want to join MUFON

411
00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:10,580
right now you can if you are a

412
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:12,870
academically trained in some way so it

413
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:14,040
doesn't matter what your degree is in

414
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:15,780
but if you have an academic degree at a

415
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:18,090
master's level or above you can send me

416
00:17:23,060 --> 00:17:20,970
an email and I will get you limited

417
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:23,070
access to MUFON so that you can see what

418
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,930
we're doing and you can try to make

419
00:17:28,430 --> 00:17:26,880
things better with me that's the first

420
00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:28,440
step that I'm that I was able to kind of

421
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:31,670
get going here the second one is we are

422
00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:36,660
creating a internal critique board kind

423
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:38,280
of a review board and so what the point

424
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:39,890
of this review board is going to be is

425
00:17:46,910 --> 00:17:44,130
every week MUFON gets sometimes hundreds

426
00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:46,920
of UFO reports and those reports are

427
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:48,600
being investigated by people that are

428
00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:50,520
being investigated by our field officers

429
00:17:54,980 --> 00:17:52,590
after that process happens that they're

430
00:17:57,140 --> 00:17:54,990
investigated those field officers then

431
00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:57,150
will write a report will give their own

432
00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:58,530
conclusions on what they think is

433
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:01,020
occurring will say whether or not they

434
00:18:04,910 --> 00:18:02,400
think that we should have a follow up

435
00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:04,920
and then we'll upload all of that on to

436
00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:08,040
our servers now after that point because

437
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:10,350
it's personal information the public

438
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:12,390
doesn't get to see that stuff what I am

439
00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:15,150
hoping to do here now will be as those

440
00:18:18,890 --> 00:18:17,100
reports come in we have a group of

441
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:18,900
people who are going to be reviewing

442
00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:20,880
these cases who will be providing

443
00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:23,640
critiques and follow-up questions and

444
00:18:28,790 --> 00:18:26,580
some kind of idea of you know well do we

445
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:28,800
think this is a do we think this is a

446
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:31,290
case worth following up on and then on

447
00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:33,570
those cases that we find to be of public

448
00:18:39,410 --> 00:18:36,630
interest on those cases that we feel are

449
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:39,420
worthy of public discourse

450
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:41,490
we'll write our own write-up a

451
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:44,010
whitepaper of sorts kind of a academic

452
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:46,290
style analysis of the case and the

453
00:18:50,510 --> 00:18:48,210
evidence and then that will be reviewed

454
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:50,520
internally by MUFON and I am hoping that

455
00:18:54,410 --> 00:18:52,260
we will be able to find some external

456
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:54,420
reviewers who will really put it through

457
00:18:58,850 --> 00:18:56,610
the wringer I do not want it to be easy

458
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:58,860
to convince the public that we found

459
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:01,200
something of interest it has to be hard

460
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,000
otherwise anything is a UFO right it has

461
00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:08,640
to be hard so I am hopeful that we will

462
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:11,190
be able to find a group of reviewers who

463
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:13,170
are willing to look at this stuff and

464
00:19:16,940 --> 00:19:14,490
they don't have to be involved in MUFON

465
00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:16,950
necessarily if you're in MUFON you'll be

466
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:19,350
part of our internal review process but

467
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,720
those those articles after they're done

468
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:23,760
being reviewed will go out to the public

469
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:25,710
and will be available to the public so

470
00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:28,730
trying to create a more transparent

471
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:30,870
investigative method and really being

472
00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:33,270
able to come out and say on the cases of

473
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:35,670
interest of that year this is what we

474
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:37,770
found and this is what we think this is

475
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:39,570
how we think it plays into the whole

476
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:42,330
phenomena see again man like this this

477
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:46,070
is more than we've heard from MUFON in

478
00:19:51,530 --> 00:19:49,380
decades in terms of transparency so

479
00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:51,540
again I think that's extremely exciting

480
00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:54,060
and like you said challenging the

481
00:19:59,390 --> 00:19:57,030
organization again people I think even

482
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,400
myself I fall victim to this a lot of

483
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:01,200
times thinking that just like the

484
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:05,010
government that MUFON is this huge you

485
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:08,640
know solid single organization where

486
00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:11,370
everyone has one thing to say one

487
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:13,980
opinion in one stance but like you said

488
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:16,620
there are small chapters in every town

489
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:19,200
every city and people have different

490
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:21,110
thoughts different opinions different

491
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:23,700
investigative approaches so I think it's

492
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:26,310
really really cool that you're willing

493
00:20:30,170 --> 00:20:27,840
to look at it from all different levels

494
00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:30,180
and from all different people right it's

495
00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:31,800
not you know and that's something to to

496
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:33,540
say here actually right that I am

497
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,190
speaking for myself right I do not

498
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,200
represent the views of all of MUFON

499
00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:39,840
right and neither does anyone who says

500
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:42,270
that they do right it's it is a giant

501
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:44,370
organization I mean it's it is kind of

502
00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:46,410
funny though you say you know I had that

503
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:48,900
same view right when I when I uh when I

504
00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:50,940
first like I was like okay I'm gonna go

505
00:20:53,299 --> 00:20:52,980
in I'm gonna ask these tough questions

506
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,309
I'm gonna

507
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:54,960
get some answers really quick but

508
00:20:57,919 --> 00:20:56,370
they'll probably fight me on it and like

509
00:21:00,200 --> 00:20:57,929
you know I was really expecting like a

510
00:21:02,739 --> 00:21:00,210
long drawn-out fight and so I wrote this

511
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:02,749
like I wrote this really long email

512
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:05,610
basically saying like you know these are

513
00:21:08,299 --> 00:21:07,200
the issues I have this is what I would

514
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,309
like answered you know what do you think

515
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:10,559
I got a phone call from that is the

516
00:21:14,749 --> 00:21:13,049
executive director of MUFON like the

517
00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:14,759
next day you know and I mean and he was

518
00:21:18,409 --> 00:21:16,169
just answering my questions and being

519
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:18,419
super transparent like MUFON seems

520
00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:20,580
really intimidating but ultimately it is

521
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,919
a group of people who are you know I

522
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:25,440
think earnest and well-meaning and for

523
00:21:29,869 --> 00:21:27,090
the most part hoping to find the truth

524
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:29,879
right and so again it's just a matter of

525
00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:31,950
putting it putting that stuff out there

526
00:21:38,269 --> 00:21:34,440
in terms of that I want to get a bit

527
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:38,279
into some recent things that have been

528
00:21:41,539 --> 00:21:39,809
going on it was fun Chris no again I

529
00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:41,549
know you're not involved directly with

530
00:21:46,369 --> 00:21:44,100
these things but these are questions and

531
00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:46,379
concerns that some of our MUFON members

532
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,230
and listeners have and one of those is

533
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:52,320
that your predecessor Robert Powell he

534
00:21:57,919 --> 00:21:56,100
quit MUFON in protest now that's a big

535
00:22:00,080 --> 00:21:57,929
thing for a guy who's been doing this

536
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,090
for a while and that was because of the

537
00:22:04,249 --> 00:22:02,159
symposium this past year about the

538
00:22:06,919 --> 00:22:04,259
secret space program you have speakers

539
00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:06,929
such as Corey Goode and Andrew Bose

540
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:09,299
passaggio I have to ask where do you

541
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:12,360
stand on the issue of MUFON going in the

542
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:15,049
direction of possible I guess

543
00:22:19,879 --> 00:22:17,340
sensationalism at times instead of

544
00:22:23,269 --> 00:22:19,889
science first off let me let me just say

545
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:23,279
I also was that was one of the reasons

546
00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:25,110
why I decided to kind of join like one

547
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,340
of the things that eventually made me

548
00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:28,740
say listen I I gotta try to get in there

549
00:22:33,859 --> 00:22:31,350
a change this sort of stuff was the

550
00:22:35,899 --> 00:22:33,869
symposium and the topic and some of the

551
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,909
talks that were given there I personally

552
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,159
do not believe that Barack Obama went to

553
00:22:42,649 --> 00:22:41,039
Mars I don't have any evidence that he

554
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,659
didn't write but I don't have any

555
00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:44,159
evidence he did either right it's

556
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:46,919
interesting right at the last local

557
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:48,450
meeting that I went to they actually

558
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:50,970
played basiago his talk again just to

559
00:22:55,340 --> 00:22:52,529
kind of get some you know people that

560
00:22:58,009 --> 00:22:55,350
didn't see it in whatever and afterwards

561
00:22:59,600 --> 00:22:58,019
I I kind of went on like a mini tirade I

562
00:23:01,220 --> 00:22:59,610
guess you know and so one of his one of

563
00:23:04,879 --> 00:23:01,230
his arguments or one of his stories is

564
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:04,889
that his father was not to you know get

565
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:06,090
into the story too much but one of his

566
00:23:09,070 --> 00:23:06,650
stories

567
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:09,080
that he was in a he was in a car with

568
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:10,190
his father and his father was

569
00:23:14,650 --> 00:23:11,900
clean-shaven and then his father went

570
00:23:16,270 --> 00:23:14,660
into a gas station and then came out

571
00:23:18,490 --> 00:23:16,280
with a full beard and his father was

572
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:18,500
like I just went to a conference through

573
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:21,650
time right and he was like my dad was

574
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:23,510
clean-shaven when he left it he had a

575
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:25,250
full beard when he came back and that's

576
00:23:29,140 --> 00:23:27,530
evidence of time travel and you know a

577
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:29,150
lot of people in the crowd like when he

578
00:23:33,370 --> 00:23:31,310
said that they kind of gasped almost and

579
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:33,380
it just made me I mean

580
00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:36,290
livid because you know he's he didn't

581
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:40,280
travel in the past traveling time right

582
00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:42,500
I mean if you have if you can travel in

583
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,630
time then you have infinite time to do

584
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:46,880
anything so why wouldn't you take a

585
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,190
couple of extra minutes to make sure

586
00:23:54,460 --> 00:23:51,520
that you come out clean-shaven again

587
00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:54,470
right like it doesn't make any sense I

588
00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:54,860
mean

589
00:24:00,040 --> 00:23:57,710
and so the problem so okay so here's the

590
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:00,050
issue MUFON is of course also an

591
00:24:04,030 --> 00:24:02,570
organization that represents the views

592
00:24:05,470 --> 00:24:04,040
of many different people and they're

593
00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:05,480
gonna be MUFON members that just heard

594
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:07,160
what I said that'll be angry right

595
00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:08,690
they're gonna be MUFON members who think

596
00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:11,630
that Andrew basiago did travel through

597
00:24:15,790 --> 00:24:13,880
time and I mean that's okay you can

598
00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:15,800
believe what you want but at a certain

599
00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:18,350
certain level it is mu phone's

600
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:20,840
responsibility to make sure that the

601
00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:23,210
people at these at these conferences the

602
00:24:28,090 --> 00:24:25,700
people at these local chapters the

603
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:28,100
people at these places are being given

604
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:30,110
good information right it is our

605
00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:32,480
responsibility that they are not being

606
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:35,150
taken advantage of it's just like if you

607
00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:36,950
know the way I kind of looked at it that

608
00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:37,790
this is kind of something that I

609
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:40,190
explained to someone earlier today was

610
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:41,960
that you know there's a difference a

611
00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:45,050
distinct difference between a conference

612
00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:47,660
of the American Medical Society on heart

613
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,590
disease and dr. oz on daytime TV saying

614
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:53,120
that you shouldn't eat bacon right

615
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:54,230
there's a difference between those two

616
00:24:58,150 --> 00:24:55,010
things

617
00:24:59,680 --> 00:24:58,160
maybe you shouldn't eat bacon but dr. oz

618
00:25:02,380 --> 00:24:59,690
is not necessarily looking out for the

619
00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:02,390
best interest of his patients he is

620
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:04,220
trying to make money and so I think that

621
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:07,390
MUFON has to be very careful about

622
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:10,640
exposing its members to people that

623
00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:13,250
potentially are acting in bad faith and

624
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:15,350
that's not to say that anyone is

625
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:18,110
specifically acting in bad faith there's

626
00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:20,570
a quote from a philosopher that I often

627
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,860
bring up but it's not really a direct

628
00:25:26,620 --> 00:25:23,840
quote because it's a translation but

629
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:26,630
it's where for one cannot speak

630
00:25:30,010 --> 00:25:28,910
therefore one must remain silent

631
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:30,020
right and there's different ways of

632
00:25:34,420 --> 00:25:31,730
saying it with more Blair force and

633
00:25:36,550 --> 00:25:34,430
therefore is and whatever but comes from

634
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:36,560
Ludwig Wittgenstein and basic idea is

635
00:25:42,970 --> 00:25:40,550
that in instances where one cannot make

636
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:42,980
in cases where there is only the

637
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,530
subjective experience of the person that

638
00:25:50,260 --> 00:25:47,600
is the evidence then there is really no

639
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:50,270
useful reason to talk about that because

640
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:52,610
you can't disprove someone's belief and

641
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:53,480
you can't prove it

642
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:55,490
so perhaps Andrew basiago believes that

643
00:26:00,340 --> 00:25:57,770
he traveled through time well we have no

644
00:26:02,110 --> 00:26:00,350
evidence of that at all and so really

645
00:26:04,270 --> 00:26:02,120
although it's an interesting question

646
00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:04,280
and potentially an interesting story and

647
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:05,780
maybe he's making it up maybe he's

648
00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:06,650
telling the truth

649
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:08,180
until there is some evidence there

650
00:26:11,710 --> 00:26:10,010
really is nothing more we can say about

651
00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:11,720
it right and so by running in circles

652
00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:13,460
and talking about all these other things

653
00:26:18,190 --> 00:26:15,350
we kind of get ourselves you know

654
00:26:20,050 --> 00:26:18,200
knotted up into into ropes so to speak

655
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:20,060
right are we kind of we can't we just

656
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:22,970
kind of muddled the conversation now I

657
00:26:28,210 --> 00:26:25,070
have made my position on these topics

658
00:26:29,530 --> 00:26:28,220
very well known to the functional

659
00:26:32,110 --> 00:26:29,540
directors and the board of directors

660
00:26:33,270 --> 00:26:32,120
right when I when I took this position I

661
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:33,280
had to go through a pretty rigorous

662
00:26:37,060 --> 00:26:35,210
interview process and one of their

663
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:37,070
questions was you know what are your

664
00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:38,930
biases or what are your opinions on

665
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:41,030
certain topics right and I said you know

666
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:43,580
I am a I am a skeptic I'm not someone

667
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,530
who is really what what some would

668
00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:47,120
consider to be I guess a true believer

669
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:49,280
right I believe in this stuff I do think

670
00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:50,870
there's something out there I think this

671
00:26:55,390 --> 00:26:53,030
question is worthy of investigation but

672
00:26:58,330 --> 00:26:55,400
I have no direct evidence personally

673
00:27:01,450 --> 00:26:58,340
that you know there are aliens in these

674
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,460
craft or that they are a conscious

675
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:04,400
manifestation or whatever but I am open

676
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:06,410
to the idea and I think that these

677
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:07,760
people that have had these experiences

678
00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:10,970
are deserving to be heard I think that

679
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,640
it's a hard question to say you know

680
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:16,400
what cases do we take to be the question

681
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,200
of what counts as evidence is one that

682
00:27:22,750 --> 00:27:20,000
gets brought up a lot and so it's hard

683
00:27:24,730 --> 00:27:22,760
to and that's actually one good point

684
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:24,740
that I think Andrew basiago does have is

685
00:27:29,530 --> 00:27:27,410
that if you were in a court case and

686
00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:29,540
maybe there's no video evidence of

687
00:27:33,310 --> 00:27:31,340
someone robbing a store but you have 12

688
00:27:34,749 --> 00:27:33,320
witnesses who say that oh that guy

689
00:27:37,149 --> 00:27:34,759
robbed that store

690
00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:37,159
has taken is good evidence right and so

691
00:27:40,719 --> 00:27:38,839
in some ways we should maybe be doing

692
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:40,729
the same thing with these claims of UFOs

693
00:27:43,779 --> 00:27:42,289
or whatever right we have all these

694
00:27:46,539 --> 00:27:43,789
people claiming that something's there

695
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:46,549
why do we discount it if it's ten

696
00:27:50,499 --> 00:27:48,289
thousand people versus if it's twelve

697
00:27:52,869 --> 00:27:50,509
that's right that's really good point

698
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,879
course I mean my book in specific is

699
00:27:58,060 --> 00:27:55,279
solely about witness testimony

700
00:28:01,209 --> 00:27:58,070
yeah and you know of course I'm under

701
00:28:03,489 --> 00:28:01,219
the definitely my mantra is facts first

702
00:28:06,909 --> 00:28:03,499
you know data evidence proof yes

703
00:28:09,729 --> 00:28:06,919
obviously but it's hard man there's that

704
00:28:12,729 --> 00:28:09,739
delicate line between what do we take as

705
00:28:15,489 --> 00:28:12,739
as witness testimony how important is it

706
00:28:17,889 --> 00:28:15,499
when we're when we get a report or when

707
00:28:20,229 --> 00:28:17,899
we go out and investigate I know some of

708
00:28:22,899 --> 00:28:20,239
my fellow colleagues they don't care

709
00:28:25,569 --> 00:28:22,909
about the witness testimony like if

710
00:28:28,659 --> 00:28:25,579
there's no video no photo no data no

711
00:28:31,089 --> 00:28:28,669
radar tracking it didn't happen so

712
00:28:33,969 --> 00:28:31,099
growing it's hard and it's such a

713
00:28:36,999 --> 00:28:33,979
delicate line for sure well and that's

714
00:28:38,889 --> 00:28:37,009
and that's why though we apply real I

715
00:28:40,629 --> 00:28:38,899
mean listen science doesn't care if

716
00:28:42,939 --> 00:28:40,639
you're making up a story or not right

717
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:42,949
right so you know if we are able to

718
00:28:47,439 --> 00:28:46,129
apply good statistics and good analysis

719
00:28:51,059 --> 00:28:47,449
to the stuff then we should be able to

720
00:28:53,739 --> 00:28:51,069
figure out whether or not there are

721
00:28:54,969 --> 00:28:53,749
non-random links right if there that's

722
00:28:57,699 --> 00:28:54,979
one what aspect that I think is very

723
00:28:59,769 --> 00:28:57,709
fascinating is if we expect that there

724
00:29:03,009 --> 00:28:59,779
is in either case right so we can both

725
00:29:05,439 --> 00:29:03,019
assume that UFO stories are completely

726
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:05,449
made up of whole cloth we could assume

727
00:29:08,829 --> 00:29:07,190
that they are completely true

728
00:29:09,939 --> 00:29:08,839
or we can say that there's somewhere in

729
00:29:13,149 --> 00:29:09,949
the middle so it's somewhere in the

730
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:13,159
middle might be there is a there is a

731
00:29:16,809 --> 00:29:14,529
psychological or sociological

732
00:29:21,699 --> 00:29:16,819
explanation for people having these

733
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:21,709
sightings that is not not based on their

734
00:29:26,619 --> 00:29:24,559
really being UFOs or aliens and crafts

735
00:29:28,809 --> 00:29:26,629
or whatever but is it is an explanation

736
00:29:30,999 --> 00:29:28,819
that we have not yet determined or found

737
00:29:33,939 --> 00:29:31,009
out in either case if it's either

738
00:29:35,469 --> 00:29:33,949
completely true or if it is partially

739
00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:35,479
true we should be able to find some

740
00:29:39,579 --> 00:29:37,669
evidence in the statistics of the

741
00:29:42,729 --> 00:29:39,589
reports right we have ten let's say we

742
00:29:44,349 --> 00:29:42,739
have 10,000 reports in a year then if we

743
00:29:46,829 --> 00:29:44,359
were able to find clear trends in that

744
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:46,839
of markers that we may not really

745
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:47,910
consider

746
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:50,130
then potentially there might be

747
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:52,530
something interesting there now you know

748
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:54,090
correlation does not imply causation

749
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:56,850
right we can't say that you know there's

750
00:29:59,780 --> 00:29:57,930
a really good one out there it's like

751
00:30:02,120 --> 00:29:59,790
the number of pirate ships decrease in

752
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:02,130
the global temperature increase so to

753
00:30:07,820 --> 00:30:03,930
fix global warming we've got to bring

754
00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:07,830
back more pirate ships right but um but

755
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:09,750
there is something to the idea that you

756
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:12,450
know if in all this data we're able to

757
00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:16,320
find something that looks like say the

758
00:30:22,460 --> 00:30:19,320
average profile of an abductee or the

759
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:22,470
average profile of what a real sighting

760
00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:23,970
a genuine sighting that we believe is a

761
00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:26,400
good sighting would look like then

762
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:28,470
potentially we can work off of that to

763
00:30:34,820 --> 00:30:32,520
then cut through some of these less less

764
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:34,830
verified or or less I don't know if

765
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:36,360
believable is the right word but some of

766
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:38,970
these less solid sightings so I think

767
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,380
that there's something to be said about

768
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:42,480
that about looking at this from a an

769
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:44,850
anthropological a psychological

770
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:46,770
sociological like there's there are

771
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:49,530
things that the hunt for UFOs can give

772
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:51,930
us that is that is outside of the

773
00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:54,120
question even fully of whether or not a

774
00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:55,950
UFO really has ever visited the earth

775
00:31:02,480 --> 00:30:59,250
and I think it's part of MUFON job to

776
00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:02,490
help spread that message and ask those

777
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:04,620
questions as well that's right Chris I

778
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:07,410
mean like you and many others we see

779
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:10,190
this entire subject from a very

780
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:12,840
sociological or even cultural lens we

781
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:15,600
aren't the first to do this obviously no

782
00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:17,580
valet comes to mind first and foremost

783
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:20,520
for me but it seems to always be one of

784
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:23,610
the most alluring approaches to this

785
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:26,940
topic of UFOs now I have to ask I've

786
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:28,410
heard you in other interviews mention

787
00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:31,410
this do you think there's a way to sort

788
00:31:36,020 --> 00:31:33,870
of work that into your research or into

789
00:31:39,290 --> 00:31:36,030
the overall approach that MUFON takes

790
00:31:42,650 --> 00:31:39,300
with the reports a hundred percent I

791
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:42,660
mean there are there's so many this is

792
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:46,080
such a listen if we found tomorrow that

793
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:50,250
an alien came to earth and you know an

794
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,690
alien lands on the lawn of the White

795
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:54,000
House and it's just like you know where

796
00:31:58,220 --> 00:31:55,770
did I park right whatever whatever

797
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:58,230
whatever he or she or they say if

798
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:02,000
tomorrow that happened it would

799
00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:04,590
tremendously world-changing and there

800
00:32:11,810 --> 00:32:07,740
are questions that that would then ask

801
00:32:15,019 --> 00:32:11,820
for us or or suggests to us that our

802
00:32:17,299 --> 00:32:15,029
philosophical that our sociological that

803
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,309
our anthropological that our just for

804
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:19,919
example right whether or not an alien

805
00:32:25,159 --> 00:32:22,799
exists right whether or not aliens exist

806
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,169
whether or not UFOs are really visiting

807
00:32:30,860 --> 00:32:27,840
the earth we can think about how would

808
00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:30,870
the ability to travel cross planet

809
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:33,960
change our society we can think about

810
00:32:40,129 --> 00:32:37,440
what would potentially having people in

811
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:40,139
some kind of stasis to travel through

812
00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:42,510
the stars what would that do to family

813
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:44,820
relationships that would be extremely

814
00:32:50,180 --> 00:32:46,860
detrimental potentially or extremely

815
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:50,190
cheat you know reformative I mean if you

816
00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:52,380
have family living on Mars and you're

817
00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:55,559
here on earth or even farther away right

818
00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:57,960
what does that mean for society so as I

819
00:33:02,269 --> 00:32:59,250
mean for cultures what does that mean

820
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:02,279
for education or parental roles like

821
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:04,440
there are huge questions that can be

822
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:06,510
asked and there are also I think very

823
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:09,210
interesting questions about say the

824
00:33:14,750 --> 00:33:12,330
timeline of UFO cases I mean this is a

825
00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:14,760
topic that I think we share a lot in

826
00:33:18,919 --> 00:33:16,590
common in terms of being interested in

827
00:33:20,779 --> 00:33:18,929
is you know the very fact that UFO

828
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:20,789
reports have changed so much over time

829
00:33:26,539 --> 00:33:24,779
is to some people evidence that whatever

830
00:33:28,909 --> 00:33:26,549
this whole thing is a is a conscious

831
00:33:31,730 --> 00:33:28,919
phenomena it's not a physical one but to

832
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:31,740
other people it's a sign that some of

833
00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:33,690
these cases we can just discard away

834
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:36,539
immediately I mean if you think that you

835
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,730
know I say this a lot I think that if if

836
00:33:42,919 --> 00:33:40,559
we had contact with the UFO if we had

837
00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:42,929
contact with an alien being it would be

838
00:33:50,269 --> 00:33:46,860
more similar to Lovecraftian horror then

839
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:50,279
a meeting with a guy from France right

840
00:33:53,659 --> 00:33:52,110
like it would be there because it's not

841
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,669
just their culture that's different

842
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:55,440
their consciousness is different that's

843
00:34:00,350 --> 00:33:57,480
one thing I think I think it came from

844
00:34:03,019 --> 00:34:00,360
the Gulf Breeze is one of the Gulf

845
00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:03,029
Breeze books but they say that it's it's

846
00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:05,070
almost like I remain at the Gulf Breeze

847
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:07,740
once maybe I whichever book this is from

848
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:12,330
the idea is that having a UFO kind of

849
00:34:15,380 --> 00:34:14,310
you know hover over you it's like having

850
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:15,390
a blue way

851
00:34:20,870 --> 00:34:17,610
look at you in the ocean this thing is

852
00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:20,880
so different it is so massively just in

853
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:23,790
terms of size in terms of lifespan in

854
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:25,890
terms of communication it is so

855
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:28,170
different but to have it actually you

856
00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:29,940
know a pre-k you know apprehend you with

857
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:31,470
its with its gaze right to have it

858
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:33,540
actually look at you and recognize that

859
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:36,690
you are another thing that is in itself

860
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,510
frightening that is in itself a changing

861
00:34:43,220 --> 00:34:41,760
a way to come and change your perception

862
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:43,230
on the world and to have that happen to

863
00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:45,570
you right so I think that I think that

864
00:34:49,820 --> 00:34:48,600
there are cases where you know I mean

865
00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:49,830
for instance Mike one of my favorite

866
00:34:54,260 --> 00:34:51,270
cases is the Betty and Barney Hill case

867
00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:54,270
right and Betty in later life would

868
00:34:59,180 --> 00:34:56,760
claim that the aliens you know basically

869
00:35:00,830 --> 00:34:59,190
asked her to hang out and talk and you

870
00:35:02,540 --> 00:35:00,840
know after all these kind of like

871
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:02,550
interesting questions right about you

872
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:04,770
know well what's what was the one about

873
00:35:08,330 --> 00:35:06,570
Barney's dentures and particularly I

874
00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:08,340
thought Barney stenches were fascinating

875
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:11,340
right that to me you know there might be

876
00:35:16,610 --> 00:35:13,290
a little bit of both a real experience

877
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:16,620
and a psychological way to explain what

878
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,420
happened to her whatever it is I mean

879
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:20,400
but but anyways that kind of takes me

880
00:35:23,930 --> 00:35:22,050
off track a bit what the point I'm

881
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:23,940
getting at here is the fact that these

882
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:26,640
cases have been so have changed so much

883
00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:29,400
over the years from the 50s where there

884
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:30,990
were aliens coming down and telling

885
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:33,060
people supposedly that you know you

886
00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:34,050
gotta get rid of your nuclear weapons

887
00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:36,750
you know to the sixties where it was

888
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:39,540
kind of Venusian ladies and bikinis

889
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:41,610
coming down and partying with dudes and

890
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:44,220
right the 80s and 90s of kind of you

891
00:35:50,090 --> 00:35:47,970
know more scary surgical whatever kind

892
00:35:52,220 --> 00:35:50,100
of abductions the fact that these have

893
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:52,230
changed so much over the years to me is

894
00:35:58,340 --> 00:35:54,930
indicative in some cases of you know

895
00:36:01,520 --> 00:35:58,350
either fabrication or someone kind of

896
00:36:03,170 --> 00:36:01,530
trying to again psychologically make

897
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:03,180
sense of a scary thing that happened to

898
00:36:08,510 --> 00:36:05,940
them but in any case that is good

899
00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:08,520
information that can be useful for an

900
00:36:13,850 --> 00:36:11,190
investigation I mean think about this if

901
00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:13,860
let's say you're a biologist and you

902
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:15,840
were trying to tell if there is a new

903
00:36:21,140 --> 00:36:19,410
species of I don't know whatever a new

904
00:36:23,690 --> 00:36:21,150
species of butterfly in the Congo or

905
00:36:26,090 --> 00:36:23,700
something right if you had evidence that

906
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:26,100
that was really existing then you would

907
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,500
expect that those reports would become

908
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:30,960
assistant over the years in other words

909
00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:32,940
the fact that this thing existed this

910
00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:34,350
butterfly does not care about our

911
00:36:39,020 --> 00:36:36,900
culture or our view of Technology or

912
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:39,030
whatever so the butterfly like those

913
00:36:44,180 --> 00:36:41,010
reports will be pretty much the same but

914
00:36:45,620 --> 00:36:44,190
if in the 50s the butterfly was I don't

915
00:36:47,870 --> 00:36:45,630
know listening to Billie Holiday or

916
00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:47,880
something right and then in the 60s the

917
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:49,470
butterfly was coming down and with

918
00:36:54,620 --> 00:36:51,810
pom-poms on and you know talking about

919
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:54,630
how groovy Venus is you'd be like that

920
00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:55,770
doesn't make any sense

921
00:37:01,520 --> 00:36:58,200
right why would the butterfly change

922
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:01,530
based on what we as humans know and it

923
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:02,730
gets it gets a little bit more tricky

924
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:05,160
though because of course there is always

925
00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:06,900
the assumption here that these things

926
00:37:10,850 --> 00:37:09,420
are conscious that they are you know

927
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,860
we're not just dealing with another

928
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:13,440
another species or a biology or

929
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:14,970
something we're dealing with another

930
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:17,460
consciousness and so that makes things a

931
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:19,110
little bit more tricky in that sense but

932
00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:20,310
still I think there's definitely

933
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:22,230
something to that idea I mean for

934
00:37:27,860 --> 00:37:24,180
instance one that always comes to mind

935
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:27,870
for me is the idea that in the distant

936
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:30,720
past there were nuclear explosions in

937
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:33,570
India that to me is a argument from

938
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:36,420
almost from a lack of imagination if we

939
00:37:41,570 --> 00:37:38,930
have the ability to travel through space

940
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:41,580
why in the hell would we still use

941
00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:44,790
nuclear weapons we we would have such

942
00:37:48,110 --> 00:37:46,350
you know it's kind of did you see you

943
00:37:49,220 --> 00:37:48,120
saw the new Star Wars right I'm sure you

944
00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:49,230
did oh absolutely

945
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:52,620
okay buta so yeah so the so the point

946
00:37:57,230 --> 00:37:55,710
where Laura Dern's character just

947
00:37:59,720 --> 00:37:57,240
travels you know she just shoots her

948
00:38:02,570 --> 00:37:59,730
ship through the main the main Empire

949
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,580
ship it's like why weren't they doing

950
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:05,280
that the whole time it's a super good

951
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:07,650
way to do it right and it's kind of the

952
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:09,060
same thing with us with this alien stuff

953
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:09,570
right

954
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:11,880
we never or this ancient alien stuff we

955
00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:14,850
never back in the 50s or the 40s or 30s

956
00:38:19,820 --> 00:38:16,740
or whatever before we had nuclear

957
00:38:23,540 --> 00:38:19,830
weapons looking at the stories in the

958
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:23,550
b'god evita looking at those stories we

959
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:25,260
never would have said oh man they use of

960
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,200
nuclear weapon it's only up to humans

961
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,480
putting that route that kind of film on

962
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,400
stuff that we think that right and I bet

963
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:34,800
in 200 years when we have developed

964
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:37,290
laser weapons or some other kind of way

965
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:39,720
to kill each other we'll be saying that

966
00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:41,700
there's evidence for that in the ancient

967
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:42,340
Hindu

968
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:45,460
right you know so it's almost a it's

969
00:38:49,590 --> 00:38:48,130
almost a challenge of trying to find

970
00:38:53,310 --> 00:38:49,600
stuff that fits with the way we look at

971
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:53,320
things now it's a fascinating journey

972
00:38:58,530 --> 00:38:55,570
and I think that's where you know even

973
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,540
the idea of philosophy it shows that

974
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:01,200
it's not dead that we can continue to

975
00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:03,310
reshape the way we think about these

976
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:04,420
things that's and that's such a

977
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:06,850
fascinating point in terms of I guess

978
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:09,370
just the alien question in general Chris

979
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:12,190
yeah a lot of people have also

980
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:14,290
criticized MoveOn for taking a very pro

981
00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:17,890
te stance with all of this and you know

982
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:20,470
well of course this may be a strong

983
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:23,710
possibility I'm sure one of many do you

984
00:39:29,610 --> 00:39:27,010
plan on looking at this in different

985
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:29,620
ways in terms of what these UFOs could

986
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:33,130
be what these possible contact and

987
00:39:37,950 --> 00:39:35,770
experience what what they might be other

988
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:37,960
than alien I guess is it the way I want

989
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:40,930
to put it yeah I mean I think that there

990
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:44,610
is a huge there is a huge amount of

991
00:39:52,110 --> 00:39:47,290
wiggle room there I guess in the sense

992
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:52,120
of this question is so huge that to

993
00:39:57,260 --> 00:39:53,620
really be able to say with any kind of

994
00:40:00,110 --> 00:39:57,270
certainty that it is a species another

995
00:40:02,820 --> 00:40:00,120
conscious species of intelligent life

996
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:02,830
from another planet traveling here by

997
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:06,010
ship you know that requires a lot of a

998
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:09,310
lot of leaps of it requires a lot of not

999
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,570
necessarily it requires a lot of

1000
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:12,880
assumptions to be made okay right just

1001
00:40:16,890 --> 00:40:15,250
like any of these ideas about what is in

1002
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:16,900
these craft or what these craft even are

1003
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:18,490
so it's it's kind of a funny question

1004
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:21,040
because this is almost a this kind of

1005
00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:23,770
question right about what is the mouflon

1006
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:25,630
stance it's almost a really good way of

1007
00:40:31,770 --> 00:40:28,480
seeing the view of the person asking the

1008
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:31,780
question almost better than what MUFON

1009
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:33,730
actually says in the subject right

1010
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:35,440
because like I have some people who will

1011
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:37,810
say to me you know well well MUFON move

1012
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:39,580
on you know you guys are open all kinds

1013
00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:42,730
of crazy ideas right you you hardly ever

1014
00:40:46,530 --> 00:40:44,950
investigate what the ships are anymore

1015
00:40:48,030 --> 00:40:46,540
and then I have people saying you know

1016
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:48,040
well I'm sick and move on all they want

1017
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:49,570
to do is talk about nuts and bolts stuff

1018
00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:51,010
we never get into the consciousness side

1019
00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:52,780
right like it's kind of you know we're

1020
00:40:56,729 --> 00:40:54,910
kind of like a really good again I think

1021
00:40:58,589 --> 00:40:56,739
because of our own

1022
00:41:00,269 --> 00:40:58,599
lack of kind of coming out and saying

1023
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:00,279
what we do believe or what we have found

1024
00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:02,529
over the years you know it's easy to

1025
00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:04,660
kind of put any kind of view on move on

1026
00:41:09,059 --> 00:41:06,910
that you want anyways that's a whole

1027
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:09,069
other tangent I guess but yeah I

1028
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:10,630
absolutely do plan on looking at other

1029
00:41:15,539 --> 00:41:13,690
other stances right I mean listen I have

1030
00:41:17,789 --> 00:41:15,549
you know I come from a family that's

1031
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:17,799
very I know that call my family very

1032
00:41:22,469 --> 00:41:19,599
religious I come from a family that is

1033
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:22,479
very Catholic like Roman Catholic right

1034
00:41:25,739 --> 00:41:23,680
I know that feeling

1035
00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:25,749
yeah and specifically like a New York

1036
00:41:30,059 --> 00:41:28,329
City Roman Catholic oh yeah right so

1037
00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:30,069
like you you know what I mean like wait

1038
00:41:35,309 --> 00:41:33,369
you know Easter Christmas you go to

1039
00:41:40,009 --> 00:41:35,319
church until Communion and then until

1040
00:41:46,859 --> 00:41:43,229
you know it gets a little bit later on

1041
00:41:48,809 --> 00:41:46,869
yeah but you know I think that this idea

1042
00:41:51,059 --> 00:41:48,819
of you know I say this on the show to

1043
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:51,069
I'm on my own podcast this idea of

1044
00:41:56,940 --> 00:41:54,400
almost what consciousness is and what

1045
00:42:01,469 --> 00:41:56,950
the limits of consciousness are that has

1046
00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:01,479
a tremendous and very very well

1047
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:04,390
researched and well reasoned scholarship

1048
00:42:09,979 --> 00:42:06,729
behind it right I mean some of our some

1049
00:42:12,269 --> 00:42:09,989
of the brightest minds of all human time

1050
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:12,279
have pondered this question of

1051
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:13,839
consciousness and what are their limits

1052
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:17,680
of consciousness and so to to out of out

1053
00:42:24,449 --> 00:42:21,430
of hand deny what a philosopher would

1054
00:42:28,109 --> 00:42:24,459
call non materialist conceptions of

1055
00:42:29,939 --> 00:42:28,119
reality I think is a a silly thing to do

1056
00:42:32,009 --> 00:42:29,949
right I mean MUFON is supposed to be a

1057
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:32,019
scientific organization and in some ways

1058
00:42:36,209 --> 00:42:33,729
early to the aims to be a scientific

1059
00:42:39,209 --> 00:42:36,219
organization and in some ways science

1060
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:39,219
has become since the time of sort of you

1061
00:42:43,819 --> 00:42:40,690
know the logical positivists

1062
00:42:45,979 --> 00:42:43,829
has sort of become synonymous with

1063
00:42:49,499 --> 00:42:45,989
materialism right the view that

1064
00:42:51,870 --> 00:42:49,509
everything in nature is the sum of parts

1065
00:42:54,689 --> 00:42:51,880
that are atoms and the things that we

1066
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:54,699
can explain with atoms and particle

1067
00:42:59,039 --> 00:42:57,130
collisions and physics are you know

1068
00:43:01,920 --> 00:42:59,049
frivolous or outside the realm of

1069
00:43:03,539 --> 00:43:01,930
science and in some ways that's probably

1070
00:43:06,930 --> 00:43:03,549
true right science is about measuring

1071
00:43:09,090 --> 00:43:06,940
and analysis of data but on the on the

1072
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:09,100
other hand though we cannot deny

1073
00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:11,410
I that a tremendous part of human

1074
00:43:15,450 --> 00:43:13,360
experience and in some ways the most

1075
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:15,460
important parts of human experience are

1076
00:43:20,340 --> 00:43:17,370
by that definition of science

1077
00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:20,350
non-scientific so I think that we

1078
00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:21,700
definitely have to consider all

1079
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:23,560
possibilities I think we need to

1080
00:43:28,890 --> 00:43:26,170
consider both the you know one one

1081
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:28,900
theory that I recently came across that

1082
00:43:32,490 --> 00:43:30,370
I actually think is very fascinating is

1083
00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:32,500
that the ship you know we have a craft

1084
00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:35,140
that we see up in the sky perhaps that's

1085
00:43:39,090 --> 00:43:36,940
not even a craft perhaps that is the

1086
00:43:42,510 --> 00:43:39,100
entity itself that's actually a really

1087
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:42,520
fascinating idea you know it's not that

1088
00:43:46,860 --> 00:43:44,470
there are things on the ship it's that

1089
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:46,870
the the ship itself is some corn some

1090
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:49,930
kind of consciousness or biological

1091
00:43:54,810 --> 00:43:52,570
entity or something right any and even

1092
00:43:56,820 --> 00:43:54,820
that on its own is an interesting thing

1093
00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:56,830
right why do we assume that these things

1094
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,510
will be biological when they get here

1095
00:44:02,730 --> 00:44:00,160
right what is our what is our definition

1096
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:02,740
of biological mean right does that mean

1097
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:05,410
that it's made out of carbon and has a

1098
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:08,170
DNA structure made out of you know these

1099
00:44:13,050 --> 00:44:11,200
specific proteins and amino chains and

1100
00:44:14,460 --> 00:44:13,060
whatever you know and I'm not good at

1101
00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:14,470
biology so I'm sure I just sounded like

1102
00:44:17,250 --> 00:44:15,190
a [\h__\h]

1103
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:17,260
for all the biologists out there you

1104
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:20,110
know or does it mean that we you know or

1105
00:44:25,050 --> 00:44:22,750
or can biological or intelligent or

1106
00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:25,060
whatever mean that I don't know they

1107
00:44:29,580 --> 00:44:26,590
passed some kind of Turing test or

1108
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:29,590
something right there's again all kinds

1109
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:32,770
of fascinating questions to ask that are

1110
00:44:35,730 --> 00:44:34,960
that are completely separate from the

1111
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:35,740
idea you know

1112
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:39,280
MUFON can be both a truth and

1113
00:44:44,490 --> 00:44:42,250
investigation group but MUFON also can

1114
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:44,500
be a very I think and I hope it will

1115
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:47,920
become this a very effective on futurism

1116
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:50,650
group right asking these questions about

1117
00:44:53,730 --> 00:44:51,070
you know

1118
00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:53,740
okay well listen we are investigating

1119
00:44:59,070 --> 00:44:56,080
UFO reports and seeing how those are

1120
00:45:02,520 --> 00:44:59,080
going but another question that we can

1121
00:45:04,770 --> 00:45:02,530
ask is you know what do we think if if

1122
00:45:07,530 --> 00:45:04,780
we were to travel to another planet how

1123
00:45:09,570 --> 00:45:07,540
would we do it right now is it right how

1124
00:45:14,070 --> 00:45:09,580
would we support ourselves in a in a

1125
00:45:17,570 --> 00:45:14,080
craft for years how would we deal with a

1126
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:17,580
society say that you know does not need

1127
00:45:21,210 --> 00:45:20,710
does not need to consume anything for

1128
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:21,220
energy

1129
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:23,170
right I mean that's one of my one of my

1130
00:45:28,109 --> 00:45:26,020
favorite little tidbits of the you know

1131
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:28,119
whether regardless of whether or not you

1132
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:29,920
think that these stories are true these

1133
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,960
stories about you know the eben Wright

1134
00:45:36,450 --> 00:45:33,760
the extra extraterrestrial biological

1135
00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:36,460
entity that supposedly the the

1136
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:39,550
government had access to right after the

1137
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,950
Roswell crash whether or not you think

1138
00:45:46,109 --> 00:45:43,359
that's true

1139
00:45:47,550 --> 00:45:46,119
the question of this thing potentially

1140
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:47,560
being more like a plant than like a

1141
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:49,630
human right so that they take an energy

1142
00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:52,450
via photosynthesis trying to imagine how

1143
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:55,990
we would even how do you even talk to an

1144
00:45:59,490 --> 00:45:57,910
entity like that and I'm saying

1145
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:59,500
literally like okay we both have

1146
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:02,079
language we both have verbal

1147
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:04,270
communication and let's say even we both

1148
00:46:10,109 --> 00:46:07,210
speak English their language has

1149
00:46:11,579 --> 00:46:10,119
developed without maybe has developed

1150
00:46:13,950 --> 00:46:11,589
without the idea of what it means to

1151
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:13,960
possess something right because why

1152
00:46:18,780 --> 00:46:15,849
would you need to own anything yourself

1153
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:18,790
if the only source of life that you've

1154
00:46:24,510 --> 00:46:21,730
ever had you know energy whatever food

1155
00:46:27,210 --> 00:46:24,520
for us and water for them is simply

1156
00:46:30,510 --> 00:46:27,220
freely given by the Sun like that's a

1157
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:30,520
fascinating question that we can talk

1158
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:32,650
about in a way that's interesting and

1159
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:34,690
really get interested academics and

1160
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:36,810
philosophers and people in public

1161
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:39,670
involved in that does not require you to

1162
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:42,400
have ever seen a UFO or even necessarily

1163
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:44,710
believe in them existing right there's

1164
00:46:50,460 --> 00:46:47,650
an interesting place for I think serious

1165
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:50,470
academic discourse inside of MUFON are

1166
00:46:54,089 --> 00:46:52,450
with mu funds you know help that does

1167
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:54,099
not require necessarily the

1168
00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:57,010
extra-terrestrial hypothesis to be our

1169
00:47:00,930 --> 00:46:57,609
stance

1170
00:47:03,059 --> 00:47:00,940
I love that man and again it's it's it's

1171
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:03,069
exciting to hear someone on the younger

1172
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:05,710
side and who's also a scientist look

1173
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:07,690
towards the future and look at what else

1174
00:47:11,099 --> 00:47:09,670
it could be and what potential I could

1175
00:47:13,650 --> 00:47:11,109
have I think that's really interesting

1176
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,660
and it sorta ties in to my next question

1177
00:47:18,660 --> 00:47:16,000
I don't know about you but I have

1178
00:47:21,390 --> 00:47:18,670
noticed that there seems to be a a

1179
00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:21,400
growing amount of younger people being

1180
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:23,230
interested in UFOs you know not

1181
00:47:29,309 --> 00:47:26,319
necessarily as being a researcher or the

1182
00:47:32,370 --> 00:47:29,319
history of ufology but just the topic in

1183
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:32,380
general how do you think that we can get

1184
00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:34,810
younger people involved in the topic

1185
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:37,240
maybe even in into researching it and

1186
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:40,210
becoming a member of MUFON yeah I mean

1187
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:44,710
so again like I I would love if everyone

1188
00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:47,310
would join move on with me and you know

1189
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,420
help me with this read all these

1190
00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:51,280
research projects I have in my head and

1191
00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:53,160
really you know be involved in whatever

1192
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:55,750
but you know obviously they're gonna be

1193
00:48:00,450 --> 00:47:58,450
people who are hesitant to join a group

1194
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:00,460
they're gonna be people who think after

1195
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:02,560
hearing me talk that MUFON isn't for

1196
00:48:06,570 --> 00:48:03,730
them there's gonna be people who think

1197
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:06,580
that I am completely off-base the

1198
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:08,410
important point is to create a healthy

1199
00:48:13,290 --> 00:48:11,650
discourse now I think that a lot of a

1200
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:13,300
lot of shows a lot of pot I mean

1201
00:48:17,130 --> 00:48:14,890
honestly I think podcasting is done a

1202
00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:17,140
lot for this field you know shows like

1203
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:20,020
your own shows like shows like you know

1204
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:21,850
last podcast on the left and the Joe

1205
00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:24,370
Rogan shows and all these really great

1206
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:26,440
all these really great podcasts that

1207
00:48:31,290 --> 00:48:28,390
talk about this stuff in a serious way I

1208
00:48:33,570 --> 00:48:31,300
think that there is a lot of good that

1209
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:33,580
can become like come out of this and I

1210
00:48:37,470 --> 00:48:35,590
think that in some ways it's shown the

1211
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:37,480
success of shows like this and the

1212
00:48:41,250 --> 00:48:39,130
success of shows even like ancient

1213
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:41,260
aliens which I think has been less than

1214
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:43,570
beneficial for the UFO community just

1215
00:48:48,450 --> 00:48:45,490
the success of those shows have shown

1216
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:48,460
that there's a huge public interest in

1217
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:51,910
this subject now in terms of how young

1218
00:48:57,150 --> 00:48:54,250
people can get involved I mean listen

1219
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:57,160
MUFON meetings are open to the public

1220
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,570
you don't have to be a Buffon member to

1221
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:00,400
go to a MUFON meeting some chapters

1222
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:03,010
charge like a $2 fee to come in to pay

1223
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:04,450
for the coffee and cupcakes they give

1224
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:07,120
out or whatever right but you know for

1225
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:09,000
the most part these are people who are

1226
00:49:13,770 --> 00:49:11,770
interested in this stuff who enjoy

1227
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:13,780
talking about it and I mean listen like

1228
00:49:19,530 --> 00:49:16,090
it any group of people there are going

1229
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:19,540
to be there's gonna be a range of

1230
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:22,030
opinions right so I remember my first

1231
00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:24,850
MUFON meeting I went to you I left and I

1232
00:49:29,310 --> 00:49:27,880
wrote a very strongly worded email to

1233
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:29,320
some of the people that I've been

1234
00:49:32,730 --> 00:49:31,210
talking to you within MUFON basically

1235
00:49:34,650 --> 00:49:32,740
saying you know this is all

1236
00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:34,660
ridiculousness I can't believe I wasted

1237
00:49:38,660 --> 00:49:36,600
my time on a Saturday

1238
00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:38,670
you know all this all this stuff and

1239
00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:39,990
they were like well they were like you

1240
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:41,880
know well listen like know like give it

1241
00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:43,170
a chance you know we really we really

1242
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:45,300
want your input we'd really you know we

1243
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,530
love having you as a member we'd really

1244
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,480
like to see this continue whatever and

1245
00:49:52,340 --> 00:49:50,640
so you know you might go to a local

1246
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:52,350
MUFON meeting or you might find a local

1247
00:49:56,780 --> 00:49:55,050
chapter that is not necessarily talking

1248
00:49:59,720 --> 00:49:56,790
about stuff that you find to be credible

1249
00:50:01,280 --> 00:49:59,730
or stuff that you are interested in you

1250
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:01,290
might you might go to a local MUFON

1251
00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:02,400
meeting and find out that the complete

1252
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:04,440
opposite is true that they are talking

1253
00:50:08,540 --> 00:50:06,690
about stuff they're talking about stuff

1254
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:08,550
in a way that seems to suggest that the

1255
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:10,110
stuff you believe isn't credible right

1256
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:12,690
there's a huge range I mean there are

1257
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:15,330
chapters that are full of physicists and

1258
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:17,880
PhDs and stuff and all they want to talk

1259
00:50:23,210 --> 00:50:20,370
about is you know zero-point energy and

1260
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:23,220
propulsion systems and whatever and then

1261
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:24,540
there are chapters that are full of

1262
00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:27,180
people who are you know philosophers and

1263
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:28,980
people that are interested in more of

1264
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:30,930
the metaphysics or the consciousness

1265
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:33,090
part of this whole question right so

1266
00:50:36,620 --> 00:50:35,250
you're gonna get a range what I would

1267
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:36,630
say though is that we are in the process

1268
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:40,920
of both improving kind of what we hope

1269
00:50:45,170 --> 00:50:43,710
to be presented to members and also

1270
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:45,180
trying to kind of wrangle in that

1271
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,770
discussion a bit so that it's fruitful

1272
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:48,480
so if you want to become a part of that

1273
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:50,370
write a huge part of that process is

1274
00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:52,710
going to be getting more local members

1275
00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:54,900
interested and invested and getting

1276
00:50:58,580 --> 00:50:56,550
people at these meetings that will

1277
00:51:00,680 --> 00:50:58,590
challenge some of the stuff being sent

1278
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:00,690
it is extremely important in any group

1279
00:51:06,890 --> 00:51:04,140
not to have a cohesive view right I mean

1280
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:06,900
otherwise like democracy doesn't work if

1281
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:08,370
everyone believes I guess it kind of

1282
00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:09,930
works perfectly if you want to look at

1283
00:51:14,330 --> 00:51:12,660
it that way I suppose if if everyone

1284
00:51:16,430 --> 00:51:14,340
believes the same thing then there's no

1285
00:51:18,770 --> 00:51:16,440
point in having discussion and so I

1286
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:18,780
would hope that what I what I'm trying

1287
00:51:24,110 --> 00:51:20,850
to do at a certain level here is at

1288
00:51:27,170 --> 00:51:24,120
every local chapter we will have a

1289
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:27,180
science panel or someone there who can

1290
00:51:31,220 --> 00:51:29,610
give to the public well actually look

1291
00:51:34,940 --> 00:51:31,230
this is the way that this science works

1292
00:51:37,310 --> 00:51:34,950
and so our local chapter in Minnesota

1293
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:37,320
we're very lucky to have a lot of really

1294
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:40,050
really smart people there who are I mean

1295
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:41,760
way better at the stuff that they were

1296
00:51:45,260 --> 00:51:43,650
studying at school than I am at the

1297
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:45,270
stuff I studied you know I mean we have

1298
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:47,010
we have a number of people who helped

1299
00:51:49,849 --> 00:51:48,750
develop different aircraft polishing

1300
00:51:52,430 --> 00:51:49,859
systems and

1301
00:51:54,709 --> 00:51:52,440
works in the military or you know worked

1302
00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:54,719
on physics and all these big companies

1303
00:51:57,620 --> 00:51:55,950
around here like it's it's amazing

1304
00:52:00,079 --> 00:51:57,630
really the membership that you'll meet

1305
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:00,089
but what I would say is that at every

1306
00:52:04,999 --> 00:52:03,359
chapter I would like to have you know a

1307
00:52:06,859 --> 00:52:05,009
group of people who would consider

1308
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:06,869
themselves to be skeptical I would like

1309
00:52:11,359 --> 00:52:08,569
to have that group of people and

1310
00:52:12,859 --> 00:52:11,369
honestly if you don't want to be a part

1311
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:12,869
of move on but you want to get involved

1312
00:52:18,469 --> 00:52:15,690
start a podcast contact people in your

1313
00:52:21,229 --> 00:52:18,479
local area you know write a blog post

1314
00:52:23,449 --> 00:52:21,239
you know send an email to myself or you

1315
00:52:25,489 --> 00:52:23,459
know send an angry email to Ryan it'll

1316
00:52:27,799 --> 00:52:25,499
be great you know I mean there are

1317
00:52:32,180 --> 00:52:27,809
there's ways to get involved in this

1318
00:52:35,029 --> 00:52:32,190
stuff that is you know both I would say

1319
00:52:37,729 --> 00:52:35,039
protects your privacy if that's what you

1320
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:37,739
are concerned about and also allows you

1321
00:52:42,799 --> 00:52:40,529
to get more interested in this stuff for

1322
00:52:45,319 --> 00:52:42,809
more information about this stuff in a

1323
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:45,329
way that you can then frame it so I

1324
00:52:49,759 --> 00:52:46,440
don't know though I mean it's a hard

1325
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:49,769
question you know it's it's a very tough

1326
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:52,410
it's a tough question because I want

1327
00:52:56,180 --> 00:52:54,690
move on to be a success but I know too

1328
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:56,190
that there are people who are still

1329
00:53:01,249 --> 00:52:58,859
gonna be resistant and you know I mean

1330
00:53:03,709 --> 00:53:01,259
listen what I want is for this field to

1331
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:03,719
be healthy not just one group right so

1332
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:05,249
it's important that we get all

1333
00:53:11,150 --> 00:53:07,650
viewpoints together yeah I think the

1334
00:53:13,549 --> 00:53:11,160
altruism of this topic alone speaks more

1335
00:53:15,499 --> 00:53:13,559
volumes than one organization ever can I

1336
00:53:18,259 --> 00:53:15,509
think that's a really good way of

1337
00:53:19,579 --> 00:53:18,269
looking at it well I I think we put you

1338
00:53:23,420 --> 00:53:19,589
enough through the ringer my man in

1339
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:23,430
servers have moved from I want to get to

1340
00:53:27,739 --> 00:53:25,170
you if you're cool with that I want to

1341
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:27,749
get of course you're doing one more

1342
00:53:32,449 --> 00:53:29,729
question though before we get off of

1343
00:53:34,609 --> 00:53:32,459
MUFON is I gotta ask your opinion on

1344
00:53:37,969 --> 00:53:34,619
this because I wouldn't be doing my due

1345
00:53:40,729 --> 00:53:37,979
diligence if I didn't Tom DeLonge to the

1346
00:53:42,469 --> 00:53:40,739
stars Academy Pentagon's story what are

1347
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:42,479
your thoughts on this man do you think

1348
00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:45,420
that this will either benefit or hurt

1349
00:53:52,189 --> 00:53:47,880
the work being done by MUFON having this

1350
00:53:54,799 --> 00:53:52,199
very visible figure and story sort of

1351
00:53:56,749 --> 00:53:54,809
overshadowing the work of many civilian

1352
00:53:59,779 --> 00:53:56,759
UFO researchers what do you think about

1353
00:54:01,039 --> 00:53:59,789
all this what I would say is that again

1354
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:01,049
this is kind of coming from my

1355
00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:02,010
background

1356
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:04,380
academic science right there are some

1357
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:07,140
fields in academic science that are what

1358
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:09,150
we consider to be niche fields right

1359
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,130
there are people working on so for

1360
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:13,680
instance my research my own research was

1361
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,370
on a very specific type of material and

1362
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:18,960
there are even niches within that one

1363
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:21,090
niche where you can get smaller and

1364
00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:22,800
smaller right so in my field there are

1365
00:54:27,770 --> 00:54:25,380
probably maybe a thousand people in the

1366
00:54:29,690 --> 00:54:27,780
world researching my material and then

1367
00:54:31,850 --> 00:54:29,700
you can get even smaller right there

1368
00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:31,860
there are my material can have all kinds

1369
00:54:35,690 --> 00:54:33,660
of different metals put into it and

1370
00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:35,700
there are some groups that only focus on

1371
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:38,280
one type of metal and so the beauty of

1372
00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:41,370
science is that there are applications

1373
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:43,350
then that kind of open up that door so

1374
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:45,750
my material was used for carbon dioxide

1375
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:48,330
captures so you know we would publish in

1376
00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:50,160
journals on co2 capture or the

1377
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:51,960
environment or a material science or

1378
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:54,510
whatever but there are some fields where

1379
00:54:58,130 --> 00:54:56,490
they have their own journals right so

1380
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:58,140
there's like a there's like I'm sure

1381
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,520
there's some out there where it's like

1382
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:01,440
you know the journal the Journal of

1383
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,170
dental implants yeah right that's a very

1384
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:06,960
small subset of science that has its own

1385
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,510
small community and in a lot of those

1386
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:11,760
cases where it's just one or two labs

1387
00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:15,420
working on stuff you miss a lot of the

1388
00:55:20,660 --> 00:55:18,030
vibrancy of you know kind of what

1389
00:55:21,860 --> 00:55:20,670
competition brings to a field or if

1390
00:55:25,070 --> 00:55:21,870
there's a lot of people working on a

1391
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:25,080
thing then the chances of you finding a

1392
00:55:29,180 --> 00:55:27,450
really good idea or the chances of

1393
00:55:31,850 --> 00:55:29,190
everyone else getting better in that

1394
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:31,860
strong field increase right and so I'm

1395
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:34,380
I'm of the opinion that that it's better

1396
00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:37,170
for UFO research in general for there to

1397
00:55:41,060 --> 00:55:39,270
be more groups out there right it's

1398
00:55:43,220 --> 00:55:41,070
better for there to be more people

1399
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:43,230
trying to make these claims and

1400
00:55:48,530 --> 00:55:46,170
investigate this stuff because it forces

1401
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,540
the rest of us to be better at the same

1402
00:55:53,090 --> 00:55:50,640
time though I would say that there's

1403
00:55:55,580 --> 00:55:53,100
always a risk with there's always a risk

1404
00:55:57,770 --> 00:55:55,590
with there being one vocal proponent or

1405
00:55:59,900 --> 00:55:57,780
one face of an of a movement right I

1406
00:56:03,050 --> 00:55:59,910
mean again I can go back to my science

1407
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:03,060
time I did research on climate change I

1408
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:05,010
did research on capturing carbon dioxide

1409
00:56:11,180 --> 00:56:08,130
and changing that molecule into other

1410
00:56:13,390 --> 00:56:11,190
molecules so that we could then make the

1411
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:13,400
capture of carbon dioxide economically

1412
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,770
viable for industry

1413
00:56:19,060 --> 00:56:16,880
so you can kinda think of it like

1414
00:56:21,490 --> 00:56:19,070
recycling I basically was working on a

1415
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:21,500
material to recycle carbon dioxide into

1416
00:56:27,730 --> 00:56:24,850
ethanol now my research now in

1417
00:56:30,430 --> 00:56:27,740
conversations with people most notably

1418
00:56:33,730 --> 00:56:30,440
members of my own family often gets

1419
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:33,740
shadowed by the annoyances of Al Gore

1420
00:56:40,330 --> 00:56:37,970
right and so and so they can then throw

1421
00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:40,340
in my face all of the failings of this

1422
00:56:46,090 --> 00:56:43,580
one very popular person or this very

1423
00:56:48,130 --> 00:56:46,100
public person they can then come at me

1424
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:48,140
with stuff from from their own feelings

1425
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:50,090
that have nothing to do with the work

1426
00:56:57,100 --> 00:56:55,730
I'm doing so I am optimistic about to

1427
00:57:00,580 --> 00:56:57,110
the Stars Academy in the work that Tom

1428
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:00,590
DeLonge is doing I am hopeful that they

1429
00:57:05,740 --> 00:57:03,410
will be able to kind of use some of

1430
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:05,750
their some of their experts and their

1431
00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:07,850
expertise to really get some interesting

1432
00:57:13,630 --> 00:57:10,270
stuff out there but at the same time

1433
00:57:16,810 --> 00:57:13,640
there's always a risk on hanging an

1434
00:57:19,210 --> 00:57:16,820
entire fields hat on one one person

1435
00:57:22,450 --> 00:57:19,220
because if that person slips up it makes

1436
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:22,460
the whole field look bad yeah so I think

1437
00:57:25,690 --> 00:57:24,170
there's I think there's promise but

1438
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:25,700
there is of course challenges and so I

1439
00:57:31,570 --> 00:57:28,970
think that's why it is important for you

1440
00:57:35,230 --> 00:57:31,580
know groups like MUFON or investigators

1441
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:35,240
such as yourself even to really make

1442
00:57:40,510 --> 00:57:37,490
your work above reproach right that's

1443
00:57:44,290 --> 00:57:40,520
why we need to have strong critique and

1444
00:57:45,340 --> 00:57:44,300
strong debate about the stuff that we do

1445
00:57:47,980 --> 00:57:45,350
and the stuff that we put out to the

1446
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:47,990
public because if we have a record to

1447
00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:50,510
say look this is all the good stuff we

1448
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:52,790
did we did our own due diligence we

1449
00:57:56,830 --> 00:57:54,410
investigated this case as thoroughly as

1450
00:57:59,050 --> 00:57:56,840
we are possible as we are capable of

1451
00:58:01,240 --> 00:57:59,060
doing and this is the conclusion we came

1452
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:01,250
to you can disagree with us still in our

1453
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:04,010
conclusion but so long as the process

1454
00:58:09,580 --> 00:58:07,010
itself is aboveboard then you know you

1455
00:58:12,460 --> 00:58:09,590
helped to insulate yourself from

1456
00:58:15,610 --> 00:58:12,470
questions of impropriety or you know

1457
00:58:17,770 --> 00:58:15,620
unethical whatever you know movements or

1458
00:58:19,930 --> 00:58:17,780
however you want to say it right so I

1459
00:58:21,580 --> 00:58:19,940
think that's a great a really great

1460
00:58:23,860 --> 00:58:21,590
point man I mean people have said you

1461
00:58:25,930 --> 00:58:23,870
know Tom DeLonge is now the face of

1462
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:25,940
ufology and maybe to the overall public

1463
00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:28,690
that might be true but

1464
00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:30,910
and when you do your work right I like

1465
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:33,310
the old saying of you know if you tell

1466
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:35,050
the truth you don't have to remember

1467
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:38,319
anything so I often go back to that time

1468
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:40,810
and time again do your work do your

1469
00:58:46,829 --> 00:58:43,839
research be ready to answer hard

1470
00:58:48,750 --> 00:58:46,839
questions and be debated and then you

1471
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:48,760
know what it should be a breeze from

1472
00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:51,369
there you know what I mean just just do

1473
00:58:57,180 --> 00:58:53,950
your own work make sure it's to the

1474
00:58:59,520 --> 00:58:57,190
standard that any you know scientist

1475
00:59:01,500 --> 00:58:59,530
would would want in the rigor of their

1476
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:01,510
work and there you go man

1477
00:59:06,329 --> 00:59:03,310
I think that's a really good point well

1478
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:06,339
in terms of you Chris as the mad

1479
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:08,890
scientist finally we get to talk about

1480
00:59:14,010 --> 00:59:10,810
me right now

1481
00:59:16,099 --> 00:59:14,020
I know you've been waiting for this yeah

1482
00:59:19,050 --> 00:59:16,109
narcissus

1483
00:59:21,660 --> 00:59:19,060
this is how I found you man I found you

1484
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:21,670
too the mad scientist podcast on iTunes

1485
00:59:26,579 --> 00:59:24,130
it popped up you know with other shows

1486
00:59:28,290 --> 00:59:26,589
I've been listening to said oh this is a

1487
00:59:30,569 --> 00:59:28,300
really cool logo I'm gonna check this

1488
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:30,579
one out buy two episodes man I was

1489
00:59:35,309 --> 00:59:32,770
hooked now you don't just cover UFOs

1490
00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:35,319
which i think is extremely refreshing as

1491
00:59:41,940 --> 00:59:39,400
a ufologist but tell please tell me the

1492
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:41,950
mad scientist podcast you Marie may you

1493
00:59:47,849 --> 00:59:45,130
what is the show about yeah so the show

1494
00:59:49,530 --> 00:59:47,859
is a skeptical look at and then it's

1495
00:59:51,690 --> 00:59:49,540
skeptical I want to get that out there

1496
00:59:54,030 --> 00:59:51,700
too I can call myself a skeptic I am a

1497
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:54,040
hopeful skeptic right I am I am NOT a

1498
00:59:58,140 --> 00:59:56,650
debunker I so to speak right I am NOT

1499
01:00:00,180 --> 00:59:58,150
going out there hoping to prove

1500
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:00,190
everything false if anything I'm hoping

1501
01:00:03,329 --> 01:00:01,810
to have my own experience you know what

1502
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,339
I mean like I want to be able to come

1503
01:00:09,210 --> 01:00:05,440
out of this saying I found something

1504
01:00:10,620 --> 01:00:09,220
here that I cannot explain right I would

1505
01:00:12,839 --> 01:00:10,630
love to be able to come out of this

1506
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:12,849
whole thing saying that I finally found

1507
01:00:18,599 --> 01:00:15,310
something to myself that proves all this

1508
01:00:21,420 --> 01:00:18,609
stuff true so the show is a is a look at

1509
01:00:23,819 --> 01:00:21,430
the hard science and the philosophy and

1510
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:23,829
history of science topics around

1511
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:27,010
different paranormal or fringe or 40 and

1512
01:00:30,359 --> 01:00:28,180
however you want to call them claims

1513
01:00:34,170 --> 01:00:30,369
right so you know we've covered topics

1514
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:34,180
like vampirism and Frankenstein's

1515
01:00:39,870 --> 01:00:36,970
monster and you know of course certain

1516
01:00:42,089 --> 01:00:39,880
UFO cases and ghosts and all these

1517
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:42,099
different things and so the show is sort

1518
01:00:46,170 --> 01:00:42,400
of a

1519
01:00:48,510 --> 01:00:46,180
comical but serious take on these topics

1520
01:00:49,710 --> 01:00:48,520
and we try to give as much you know we

1521
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:49,720
try to we're trying to teach people

1522
01:00:54,930 --> 01:00:52,720
science and teach people sort of

1523
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:54,940
philosophy through talking about these

1524
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,250
things in an entertaining way that's

1525
01:01:02,700 --> 01:00:59,440
awesome and and I mean you've covered

1526
01:01:05,370 --> 01:01:02,710
many many different things but of course

1527
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:05,380
I was gravitating towards some of the

1528
01:01:09,299 --> 01:01:07,990
more a you Falah jicka ones Betty Betty

1529
01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:09,309
and Barney Hill come to mind

1530
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:11,049
I loved your two-part series on that

1531
01:01:16,019 --> 01:01:14,410
you've had some stunning audio from both

1532
01:01:18,359 --> 01:01:16,029
of the individuals involved with that

1533
01:01:20,910 --> 01:01:18,369
which I'd actually never heard before so

1534
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:20,920
that was actually really cool oh my

1535
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:23,230
goodness the tapes of the tapes that

1536
01:01:29,789 --> 01:01:25,599
were made you know a dr. Simon's office

1537
01:01:32,370 --> 01:01:29,799
are terrifying yeah you know I mean it's

1538
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,380
like it's the kind I actually distinctly

1539
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,240
I distinctly remember the first time I

1540
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:36,400
heard them I used to sleep in the

1541
01:01:46,859 --> 01:01:38,950
basement of my my mom's house because I

1542
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:46,869
was a really cool teenager I remember

1543
01:01:52,109 --> 01:01:49,359
being on my my old kind of clunky

1544
01:01:53,099 --> 01:01:52,119
desktop computer and being on I don't

1545
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:53,109
know it must have been like something

1546
01:01:57,150 --> 01:01:54,730
awful or whatever one of those websites

1547
01:01:59,870 --> 01:01:57,160
and I remember finding a link that was

1548
01:02:02,640 --> 01:01:59,880
like you know the tapes from a real UFO

1549
01:02:06,059 --> 01:02:02,650
abductees and I clicked on them and they

1550
01:02:07,410 --> 01:02:06,069
were the recordings of Betty of Barney

1551
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:07,420
specifically histor probably the most

1552
01:02:13,170 --> 01:02:09,910
frightening and I remember listening to

1553
01:02:14,910 --> 01:02:13,180
them and getting so afraid that I had to

1554
01:02:17,549 --> 01:02:14,920
go up and sleep in the living room with

1555
01:02:22,289 --> 01:02:17,559
all the lights on I just remember being

1556
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:22,299
like oh no so scary yeah I've heard many

1557
01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:23,650
of those tapes throughout my time

1558
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:26,200
investigating from abductees yeah you

1559
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:28,210
know in my two years of in you know

1560
01:02:32,670 --> 01:02:30,160
researching for the book and speaking to

1561
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:32,680
hundreds of abductees hearing some of

1562
01:02:38,220 --> 01:02:35,170
their hypnotic regressions or just their

1563
01:02:40,109 --> 01:02:38,230
testimony in general kept me up at night

1564
01:02:42,809 --> 01:02:40,119
no matter what I thought happened to

1565
01:02:46,529 --> 01:02:42,819
them something happened to these people

1566
01:02:49,019 --> 01:02:46,539
or they firmly believe it did and it can

1567
01:02:51,890 --> 01:02:49,029
be very unsettling man it changes your

1568
01:02:54,049 --> 01:02:51,900
entire worldview sometimes

1569
01:02:56,269 --> 01:02:54,059
so I mean I have to ask in any of your

1570
01:02:58,809 --> 01:02:56,279
other UFO shows that you've you've done

1571
01:03:01,069 --> 01:02:58,819
do you have any favorites that really

1572
01:03:03,980 --> 01:03:01,079
really stuck with you and you thought

1573
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:03,990
there is definitely something to this

1574
01:03:09,470 --> 01:03:07,410
honestly the Betty Barney Hill case is

1575
01:03:12,349 --> 01:03:09,480
one of my favorites of all time and it's

1576
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:12,359
one that I definitely there are parts of

1577
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,490
that story that are not again it comes

1578
01:03:20,150 --> 01:03:16,559
down to you if you listen to those tapes

1579
01:03:23,630 --> 01:03:20,160
they are so Barney is so sincere in his

1580
01:03:28,660 --> 01:03:23,640
front picture this leader is telling me

1581
01:03:35,779 --> 01:03:28,670
something he's telling you something

1582
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:35,789
he'll cause you gotta get to you I can

1583
01:03:53,019 --> 01:03:47,730
see it in his face tell you looking at

1584
01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:53,029
me like spinning tail you'll stay there

1585
01:03:59,710 --> 01:03:55,609
and keep looking

1586
01:04:56,180 --> 01:03:59,720
just keep looking and stay there and

1587
01:04:58,099 --> 01:04:56,190
just keep my eyes I know the reason

1588
01:05:01,250 --> 01:04:58,109
originally that they went to dr. Simon

1589
01:05:02,599 --> 01:05:01,260
was because Barney and Betty were having

1590
01:05:04,970 --> 01:05:02,609
or Betty in particular was having

1591
01:05:07,700 --> 01:05:04,980
nightmares but they were both having

1592
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:07,710
or showing signs of distress in their in

1593
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:11,310
their waking lives right where you know

1594
01:05:16,370 --> 01:05:14,160
Barney's ulcer was acting up and really

1595
01:05:18,020 --> 01:05:16,380
starting to bother him and just from the

1596
01:05:20,570 --> 01:05:18,030
stress alone and neither of them were

1597
01:05:21,890 --> 01:05:20,580
really sleeping a little and that aspect

1598
01:05:24,830 --> 01:05:21,900
of it kind of really affecting them

1599
01:05:27,050 --> 01:05:24,840
negatively led them to seek hypnosis

1600
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:27,060
just to try to alleviate some of these

1601
01:05:31,940 --> 01:05:29,850
symptoms right and then dr. Simon even

1602
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:31,950
afterwards would say you know in his

1603
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:34,290
writings on the case that you know he

1604
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:35,850
did not think that they had necessarily

1605
01:05:39,110 --> 01:05:37,410
been abducted by aliens he just thought

1606
01:05:40,490 --> 01:05:39,120
that something that's what they believed

1607
01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:40,500
in something traumatic had happened to

1608
01:05:46,490 --> 01:05:42,630
them right but you listened to that tape

1609
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:46,500
and it is hard to it's hard to separate

1610
01:05:51,050 --> 01:05:48,810
what you hear on that tape from kind of

1611
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:51,060
the facts on the ground right or the

1612
01:05:57,140 --> 01:05:54,930
improbability say of anyone being

1613
01:05:59,660 --> 01:05:57,150
abducted I mean that those tapes are

1614
01:06:01,220 --> 01:05:59,670
really really chilling now that being

1615
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:01,230
said part of the reason why I really

1616
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:03,200
like that case is because I personally

1617
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:05,730
still don't know where I stand on

1618
01:06:09,740 --> 01:06:08,130
hypnosis right as a as a piece of

1619
01:06:12,020 --> 01:06:09,750
evidence I mean American Medical

1620
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:12,030
Association I believe they've come out

1621
01:06:18,740 --> 01:06:16,190
and or some most reputable medical

1622
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:18,750
associations come out strongly against

1623
01:06:24,140 --> 01:06:22,170
the use of hypnosis for remembering

1624
01:06:26,210 --> 01:06:24,150
memories right they they say that it

1625
01:06:27,620 --> 01:06:26,220
doesn't doesn't give you higher recall

1626
01:06:28,970 --> 01:06:27,630
as they thought it once did it doesn't

1627
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:28,980
really make you able to remember things

1628
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:31,680
any better but it does allow you to kind

1629
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:33,930
of potentially relive things that did

1630
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:36,720
happen to you however the the chances of

1631
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:39,210
implanting memories are so high and the

1632
01:06:43,550 --> 01:06:41,010
chance of doing real damage is so high

1633
01:06:45,740 --> 01:06:43,560
that you know it's it's not something

1634
01:06:47,870 --> 01:06:45,750
that they really suggest anyone do I set

1635
01:06:50,420 --> 01:06:47,880
up a medical doctors or a psychologists

1636
01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:50,430
office so that's actually one of the

1637
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:53,640
methods that I hope MUFON will that's

1638
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:54,810
one of the methods I hope to really

1639
01:06:57,770 --> 01:06:56,250
investigate it's probably the first ones

1640
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:57,780
I hope to investigate but that being

1641
01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,240
said again I think like what you said

1642
01:07:05,810 --> 01:07:02,400
regardless of what you think happened to

1643
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:05,820
these people right that tape is so

1644
01:07:10,330 --> 01:07:08,700
unsettling and it seems so obvious that

1645
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:10,340
they are convinced that something

1646
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:12,330
terrible happened to them that night

1647
01:07:16,340 --> 01:07:14,400
even though again Betty's recall of it

1648
01:07:18,140 --> 01:07:16,350
is vastly different than Barney's that

1649
01:07:20,569 --> 01:07:18,150
and vastly different not in the

1650
01:07:23,779 --> 01:07:20,579
particulars but in their tone I should

1651
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:23,789
say that that case is one that still you

1652
01:07:27,319 --> 01:07:25,440
know leaves me scratching my head I

1653
01:07:29,930 --> 01:07:27,329
gotta say though I think one of my

1654
01:07:34,039 --> 01:07:29,940
favorite cases ever is one that I am

1655
01:07:36,259 --> 01:07:34,049
certain wasn't real boy or at least I

1656
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:36,269
can't say certain one that I believe

1657
01:07:41,870 --> 01:07:39,650
wasn't real but it is one that I find

1658
01:07:44,930 --> 01:07:41,880
fascinating because of a personal

1659
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:44,940
connection to it give it to me um so

1660
01:07:50,749 --> 01:07:48,210
this case voice what's it so this is

1661
01:07:54,170 --> 01:07:50,759
from Claremont New Hampshire right and

1662
01:07:56,420 --> 01:07:54,180
so now actually since then I've uh

1663
01:07:57,769 --> 01:07:56,430
since then we've had more we've had more

1664
01:08:00,499 --> 01:07:57,779
information on it and stuff and I've

1665
01:08:02,569 --> 01:08:00,509
actually people from the town talk to me

1666
01:08:05,779 --> 01:08:02,579
now about you know they've seen

1667
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,789
something or they believe that you know

1668
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:06,960
they believe that something is really

1669
01:08:10,249 --> 01:08:08,490
happened to them one of my favorite

1670
01:08:11,839 --> 01:08:10,259
cases is one that we have yet to cover

1671
01:08:14,299 --> 01:08:11,849
on the show but we're going to in the

1672
01:08:17,450 --> 01:08:14,309
future this plan for this season it is

1673
01:08:20,660 --> 01:08:17,460
the story of John M Maloney and his wife

1674
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:20,670
in Claremont New Hampshire now the

1675
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:22,290
reason I love this story is that I lived

1676
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:24,449
on the farm where a lot of these

1677
01:08:28,729 --> 01:08:27,449
sightings took place or on the hill were

1678
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:28,739
a lot of these sightings took place and

1679
01:08:31,249 --> 01:08:29,850
a lot of these a lot of this story

1680
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:31,259
happened in the town of Claremont New

1681
01:08:35,959 --> 01:08:34,170
Hampshire so John and Maloney is a was a

1682
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:35,969
UFO investigator for a period of time

1683
01:08:40,370 --> 01:08:38,489
kind of in the 70s up til you know

1684
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:40,380
people from 60s like the 80s let's say

1685
01:08:45,470 --> 01:08:43,199
but but has really lost a lot of he's

1686
01:08:47,660 --> 01:08:45,480
fill it he's fallen into ill repute in

1687
01:08:49,999 --> 01:08:47,670
racing not recent years even towards the

1688
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:50,009
end of his life he fell into ill repute

1689
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:51,810
with kind of the investigative

1690
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:54,000
committees and bodies of the time period

1691
01:08:57,229 --> 01:08:55,770
even to this day I would say his story

1692
01:08:59,539 --> 01:08:57,239
has definitely looked at it as kind of a

1693
01:09:02,390 --> 01:08:59,549
case of you know he was involved in a

1694
01:09:04,610 --> 01:09:02,400
lot of investigations and then his later

1695
01:09:07,820 --> 01:09:04,620
life kind of taking the turn that it did

1696
01:09:09,229 --> 01:09:07,830
almost made those later invested those

1697
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:09,239
earlier investigations that he did

1698
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:12,810
almost made those look less truthful or

1699
01:09:18,890 --> 01:09:15,120
less you know less solid in comparison

1700
01:09:21,919 --> 01:09:18,900
let's say now this guy John Maloney

1701
01:09:25,220 --> 01:09:21,929
lived down the hill from my wife's

1702
01:09:27,950 --> 01:09:25,230
grandmother for a long time and actually

1703
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:27,960
so when I first started dating Katie and

1704
01:09:30,769 --> 01:09:29,520
her parents herds I like this stuff they

1705
01:09:32,180 --> 01:09:30,779
were like oh

1706
01:09:33,649 --> 01:09:32,190
gotta meet the guy down the hill right

1707
01:09:35,870 --> 01:09:33,659
there like he's got to talk to this guy

1708
01:09:37,849 --> 01:09:35,880
and so I actually I can't remember if he

1709
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:37,859
was I can't remember if he had passed

1710
01:09:43,970 --> 01:09:40,770
away at the time yet or not but anyways

1711
01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:43,980
his story basically was that there was a

1712
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:46,049
sighting in Clermont New Hampshire and

1713
01:09:51,970 --> 01:09:49,770
then his he met a woman in the town who

1714
01:09:54,919 --> 01:09:51,980
claimed to be basically like a

1715
01:09:58,339 --> 01:09:54,929
alien-human hybrid right then it kind of

1716
01:10:00,140 --> 01:09:58,349
gets it gets more intense from there and

1717
01:10:01,250 --> 01:10:00,150
you know they talk about they talk about

1718
01:10:03,799 --> 01:10:01,260
communicating with him telepathically

1719
01:10:05,870 --> 01:10:03,809
and whatever and it's all it's really an

1720
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:05,880
interesting it's an interesting book but

1721
01:10:10,970 --> 01:10:07,260
the reason why I find it so fascinating

1722
01:10:13,129 --> 01:10:10,980
is that this story actually you know how

1723
01:10:15,709 --> 01:10:13,139
sometimes even when someone is is maybe

1724
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:15,719
off the mark on certain things they're

1725
01:10:20,419 --> 01:10:17,730
telling the truth in other ways yeah

1726
01:10:22,339 --> 01:10:20,429
definitely so so when I started

1727
01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:22,349
investigating this book more cuz again I

1728
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:23,880
knew I was doing this podcast I was like

1729
01:10:27,589 --> 01:10:25,679
I gotta tell his story in some way I

1730
01:10:29,870 --> 01:10:27,599
started talking to people in the town

1731
01:10:31,850 --> 01:10:29,880
and it turns out that a lot of the stuff

1732
01:10:33,290 --> 01:10:31,860
you said in the book happened right so

1733
01:10:34,549 --> 01:10:33,300
like there was a mass sighting in

1734
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:34,559
Claremont New Hampshire that really

1735
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,510
wasn't talked about because this guy was

1736
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:38,880
the one to investigate it there was a

1737
01:10:44,180 --> 01:10:41,010
sighting on the farm where Katie's

1738
01:10:46,129 --> 01:10:44,190
family now Katie's grandma now owns land

1739
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:46,139
it was a sighting on that field right

1740
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:47,250
that happened and so this is like a

1741
01:10:52,220 --> 01:10:50,159
field that I was in every day messing

1742
01:10:53,959 --> 01:10:52,230
around and you know what I mean so kind

1743
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:53,969
of like that personal connection for me

1744
01:10:58,060 --> 01:10:56,340
makes it one that I really enjoy and

1745
01:11:02,620 --> 01:10:58,070
really I'm what I'm hoping to do is

1746
01:11:05,209 --> 01:11:02,630
again through MUFON is create local

1747
01:11:06,379 --> 01:11:05,219
historians or a local history board or

1748
01:11:09,950 --> 01:11:06,389
something it depends on how many people

1749
01:11:11,839 --> 01:11:09,960
I can get interested but a local group

1750
01:11:14,419 --> 01:11:11,849
of people local researchers who can

1751
01:11:17,180 --> 01:11:14,429
collect these stories right I mean there

1752
01:11:19,790 --> 01:11:17,190
are MUFON is only had a computerized

1753
01:11:21,620 --> 01:11:19,800
database for you know relatively short

1754
01:11:24,049 --> 01:11:21,630
period of time right there are case

1755
01:11:26,029 --> 01:11:24,059
files from the early days that are that

1756
01:11:27,740 --> 01:11:26,039
are not online yet and then that's just

1757
01:11:28,879 --> 01:11:27,750
because of people either you don't have

1758
01:11:30,890 --> 01:11:28,889
them and haven't been part of the group

1759
01:11:32,839 --> 01:11:30,900
or they don't want to talk about it or

1760
01:11:34,930 --> 01:11:32,849
whatever it would be it would be a huge

1761
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:34,940
shame to the UFO community if those

1762
01:11:41,870 --> 01:11:38,730
pieces of info were lost and so one of

1763
01:11:43,819 --> 01:11:41,880
the goals for me and MUFON is really

1764
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:43,829
finding and creating teams that can go

1765
01:11:46,580 --> 01:11:44,699
out and collect

1766
01:11:48,649 --> 01:11:46,590
these stories or even just you know put

1767
01:11:50,419 --> 01:11:48,659
them into large anthologies for the for

1768
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:50,429
the town or for the area that they're in

1769
01:11:55,129 --> 01:11:53,159
you know cuz again I would have never

1770
01:11:57,739 --> 01:11:55,139
heard about this story unless I was in

1771
01:11:59,660 --> 01:11:57,749
this area of New Hampshire right but

1772
01:12:01,850 --> 01:11:59,670
it's just a treasure a treasure trove of

1773
01:12:03,859 --> 01:12:01,860
interesting cases that were never

1774
01:12:05,660 --> 01:12:03,869
reported to MUFON so it's super

1775
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:05,670
interesting this is really like this is

1776
01:12:11,930 --> 01:12:08,489
really the story the case or the number

1777
01:12:15,259 --> 01:12:11,940
of cases that made me start going out of

1778
01:12:17,089 --> 01:12:15,269
my weekends looking for this stuff my

1779
01:12:18,469 --> 01:12:17,099
wife it's like the ad you know this is

1780
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:18,479
that this is the turning point in the

1781
01:12:25,939 --> 01:12:22,050
marriage this is where the divorce

1782
01:12:28,489 --> 01:12:25,949
proceedings will begin ya hear this in

1783
01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:28,499
every biography of every UFO researcher

1784
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:30,030
there's the turning point for the

1785
01:12:40,100 --> 01:12:32,010
significant other where it's like ok I

1786
01:12:42,649 --> 01:12:40,110
love you but I've had enough I don't

1787
01:12:46,729 --> 01:12:42,659
think so Katie's a very supportive of my

1788
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:46,739
my hobbies so to speak that's very

1789
01:12:53,060 --> 01:12:51,570
important yes for a deal-breaker well

1790
01:12:54,859 --> 01:12:53,070
that's awesome it I really look forward

1791
01:12:57,410 --> 01:12:54,869
to you know whatever you end up coming

1792
01:12:59,750 --> 01:12:57,420
up with in terms of that episode I will

1793
01:13:02,239 --> 01:12:59,760
be listening religiously to what you

1794
01:13:05,299 --> 01:13:02,249
unravel with this whole case it seems

1795
01:13:06,830 --> 01:13:05,309
really cool where can we find the show

1796
01:13:09,140 --> 01:13:06,840
Chris where can we find out what you're

1797
01:13:11,779 --> 01:13:09,150
doing give us a move funds information

1798
01:13:14,180 --> 01:13:11,789
hit me with it man yeah so you can find

1799
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:14,190
the podcast through audio boom and

1800
01:13:18,109 --> 01:13:15,840
through all of your normal podcast

1801
01:13:20,989 --> 01:13:18,119
listening apps so the show is called the

1802
01:13:22,669 --> 01:13:20,999
mad scientist podcast you can you can

1803
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:22,679
tell us by our logo it's the one with

1804
01:13:27,319 --> 01:13:25,199
the jack-o'-lantern face love it well

1805
01:13:29,629 --> 01:13:27,329
it's pretty easy to find through MUFON

1806
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:29,639
you can actually send me direct emails

1807
01:13:36,830 --> 01:13:33,360
my email for MUFON is director research

1808
01:13:42,469 --> 01:13:36,840
at MUFON comm so that's all one word so

1809
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:42,479
dir ect oh our our ESEA our CH at MUFON

1810
01:13:45,140 --> 01:13:43,050
com

1811
01:13:47,209 --> 01:13:45,150
you can shoot emails that way and I will

1812
01:13:48,979 --> 01:13:47,219
answer them as soon as I can and of

1813
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:48,989
course I mean you can find out more

1814
01:13:52,339 --> 01:13:50,010
about what I'm doing

1815
01:13:55,399 --> 01:13:52,349
through MUFON comm through the website

1816
01:13:56,209 --> 01:13:55,409
if you want to get involved so one one

1817
01:13:58,129 --> 01:13:56,219
thing that I thought was really

1818
01:13:58,440 --> 01:13:58,139
important was finding a way for you know

1819
01:14:00,150 --> 01:13:58,450
low

1820
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:00,160
during that barrier to membership for

1821
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:01,690
MUFON you know so we actually have a

1822
01:14:07,050 --> 01:14:04,330
coupon code out right now it's join 25

1823
01:14:08,700 --> 01:14:07,060
if you put that into the checkout when

1824
01:14:10,770 --> 01:14:08,710
you actually become a member you'll get

1825
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:10,780
25% off your membership it's like six

1826
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:13,450
dollars a month or $60 for the year or

1827
01:14:19,290 --> 01:14:15,760
if you have again like I said a masters

1828
01:14:21,570 --> 01:14:19,300
or PhD in any field email me and I can

1829
01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:21,580
get you into the group so that you can

1830
01:14:24,270 --> 01:14:22,960
get a taste of what we're doing and

1831
01:14:24,540 --> 01:14:24,280
figure out if you want to be a part of

1832
01:14:25,770 --> 01:14:24,550
it

1833
01:14:27,180 --> 01:14:25,780
and of course if you just have any

1834
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:27,190
questions or you just want to go to a

1835
01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:29,410
local meeting or something that's always

1836
01:14:33,450 --> 01:14:31,180
available and I am happy to answer any

1837
01:14:35,490 --> 01:14:33,460
questions about what we're doing what I

1838
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:35,500
hope to do and any concerns or comments

1839
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:37,360
you have you know I'm really like I said

1840
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:39,370
I think transparency is super important

1841
01:14:44,370 --> 01:14:42,010
so it is really the really one of the

1842
01:14:46,290 --> 01:14:44,380
major things that I hope will be you

1843
01:14:48,420 --> 01:14:46,300
know part of my tenure so to speak

1844
01:14:50,340 --> 01:14:48,430
that's awesome and I mean I couldn't

1845
01:14:53,930 --> 01:14:50,350
think of a better person to take on this

1846
01:14:56,700 --> 01:14:53,940
responsibility and consider me sold on

1847
01:14:59,010 --> 01:14:56,710
rethinking the way I look at MUFON and

1848
01:15:01,160 --> 01:14:59,020
what they are capable of it's people

1849
01:15:03,690 --> 01:15:01,170
like you coming into the organization

1850
01:15:05,820 --> 01:15:03,700
that I think can really shake things up

1851
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:05,830
and move it in the right direction so

1852
01:15:10,620 --> 01:15:08,320
buddy from one researcher to another I

1853
01:15:13,500 --> 01:15:10,630
am wishing you all my very best for the

1854
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:13,510
position with your awesome podcast and I

1855
01:15:17,250 --> 01:15:15,010
have to thank you again for coming on

1856
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:17,260
somewhere in the skies today man thank

1857
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:18,910
you so much for having me and thank you

1858
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:20,770
for the kind words I hope that we can

1859
01:15:26,130 --> 01:15:23,770
you know live up to your faith in us

1860
01:15:27,990 --> 01:15:26,140
that is it for this week's episode again

1861
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:28,000
you could find Chris at the mad

1862
01:15:33,300 --> 01:15:30,880
scientist podcast calm or reach him

1863
01:15:36,570 --> 01:15:33,310
through MUFON by emailing director

1864
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:36,580
research at MUFON comm if you haven't

1865
01:15:41,610 --> 01:15:38,560
already please take just a few moments

1866
01:15:44,610 --> 01:15:41,620
to subscribe rate and review somewhere

1867
01:15:46,890 --> 01:15:44,620
in the skies on iTunes or wherever you

1868
01:15:50,430 --> 01:15:46,900
may listen from it helps tremendously

1869
01:15:53,370 --> 01:15:50,440
our patreon campaign is growing as well

1870
01:15:55,530 --> 01:15:53,380
we're almost up to 50% if you want to

1871
01:15:57,780 --> 01:15:55,540
help the show out and receive tons of

1872
01:16:01,020 --> 01:15:57,790
bonus content and to learn more visit

1873
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:01,030
patreon.com backslash somewhere skies

1874
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:03,370
we're on twitter at summer skies and

1875
01:16:08,730 --> 01:16:06,490
instagram at somewhere skies pod for

1876
01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:08,740
guests or topic suggestions or to share

1877
01:16:11,940 --> 01:16:10,870
your own personal sighting encounter or

1878
01:16:14,460 --> 01:16:11,950
story use the

1879
01:16:16,890 --> 01:16:14,470
contact tap on the website somewhere in

1880
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:16,900
the skies calm I'll see you here next

1881
01:16:21,630 --> 01:16:19,450
Monday and remember keep your feet on

1882
01:16:23,210 --> 01:16:21,640
the ground but never stop searching

1883
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:23,220
summer on the skies

1884
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:30,710
somewhere in disguise is produced by

1885
01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:32,490
Third Kind productions in association

1886
01:16:36,230 --> 01:16:34,440
with the entertainment one podcast

1887
01:16:38,510 --> 01:16:36,240
network to learn more visit

1888
01:16:41,210 --> 01:16:38,520
Entertainment one podcast com

1889
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:41,220
Ashley do you know why feet and only

1890
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:43,170
feet keep washing up on a beach in the

1891
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:44,250
Pacific Northwest

1892
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:46,170
you know Kristi I can't say that I do

1893
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:48,330
well neither do I but I have a theory

1894
01:16:51,770 --> 01:16:49,890
and anyone who wants to hear it should

1895
01:16:52,370 --> 01:16:51,780
listen to our podcast it's called that's

1896
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:52,380
weird

1897
01:16:57,980 --> 01:16:56,250
[\h__\h] it's not just feet I'm so glad we

1898
01:17:00,770 --> 01:16:57,990
don't just talk about feet right that

1899
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:00,780
would truly be the weirdest so yeah if

1900
01:17:04,970 --> 01:17:03,210
you like weird topics feminist rants and

1901
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:04,980
the occasional f-bomb you should listen

1902
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:07,290
to us we post new episodes every other

1903
01:17:11,060 --> 01:17:09,210
Monday find us online at that's weird

1904
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:11,070
org and subscribe to that's weird on